Distributor weights

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
Jack built me a stroker 12 years ago , its a Comp Cams solid roller. 11 to 1. 583 heads , Eagle crank . Factory carbs and intake. I have all the rod, spring and jet numbers out in the garage. I think if I had 20 crank degrees in the distributor i stead of 15 it may help. I found a couple guys with a Sun machine So may take it over one of these days soon.
 

427John

Well Known Member
I didn't realize you were running such a big cam now the need for the high idle setting gets a little clearer. Once you get your timing where you want it and if you still have run on issues, one thing you could try is fabricate a bracket to install an anti-stall solenoid to act as your idle adjustment stop while energized so that you can back off your idle adjustment screw, that way when you shut off your ignition and de-energize the solenoid the throttle baldes will close off and maybe that will stop your run on.Some smog era engines had a similar setup I think they called it an anti-dieseling solenoid.
 

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
I didn't realize you were running such a big cam now the need for the high idle setting gets a little clearer. Once you get your timing where you want it and if you still have run on issues, one thing you could try is fabricate a bracket to install an anti-stall solenoid to act as your idle adjustment stop while energized so that you can back off your idle adjustment screw, that way when you shut off your ignition and de-energize the solenoid the throttle baldes will close off and maybe that will stop your run on.Some smog era engines had a similar setup I think they called it an anti-dieseling solenoid.
I think I had a Cali COPO Chevelle T400 with that solenoid. It will not idle lower than 950. If I drop the timing down to 10-12 i have to compensate by raising idle screw which will not help run on. Does it with 93, or 100 gas. Drives me nuts. Guess I will keep going on the basics. Really want to get the dizzy re worked and go from there. If its a solenoid I wind up needing then I will go that route too after exhausting all of our brains.
 

427John

Well Known Member
Ok I misunderstood I thought you were saying you needed 950,the high initial could be the culprit while it generally is beneficial if it gets too far advanced it will start to degrade idle quality and the engine will tend to abrupty stall when lugged down a little,it's pretty easy to get into this situation especially with vacuum advance.It would be useful to determine just how much advance your vacuum mechanism provides,if it is a replacement it may need to be limited, some of the replacement cans can give a ridiculous amount of advance. Once you get your initial and total timing where it needs to be,your vacuum can should be limited to provide maybe another 12-14 degrees,you'll need to road test to make sure,if when driving at highway speed you slowly push down on the gas as you transition from coast or cruise to power if you get any ping during the transition even its just for a second you need to take a little vacuum advance out.You can temporarily back off of your initial to find out how much advance you need to lose,but long term you want to limit your vacuum can travel so that you can put your initial back to where it belongs.You would be surprised how many guys sacrifice some of their initial and total timing to correct an over advancing vacuum can,and that's not a very good trade.
 

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
What is the duration at .050 on your cam? Once you get above about 240-250 the engine won't want the vacuum advance.According to the numbers that you posted,the vacuum can is providing 12 degrees[6 degrees in the dist.].That may be too much.Show Cars says that their replacement vac.can is adjustable so that might be an option.John's right about the over advance condition.You may also set your total advance to 32-34 degrees instead of the 36 you're running now due to the fuel that's out there.
 

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
Duration @50 is 236/244 . Car generally runs damn good. I think the distributor needs to be curved but not that far off. The throttle solenoid may be very helpful as I think I am looking at a fuel issue. I cant idle it lower than 950. It just doesnt like it. Plenty of vaccum at idle @15 in. But the idle screw has 2 turns on it to hold 950 and that may be uncovering the transfers. The damn solenoid at Summit is 195 bucks with the Carter/Edelbrock bracket so want to did more to see if I can pinpoint.
 

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
Try opening up the front idle screws a little although that may mean leaning the rears a like amount.Also make sure that front carb is completely[ idle speed srew]]closed at an idle.You've got good vacuum so this may be a mixture balance issue.Working that dist.on a Sun machine is never a bad idea in the right hands either.
 
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IMBVSUR?

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Supporting Member 2
I have asked this before, however I never got an answer. Is there a company in the states that recurves distributors.
 
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427John

Well Known Member
I have asked this before, however I never got an answer. Is there a company in the states that recurves distributors.
Yeah its not like the old days when every good high performance repair shop seemed to have them,I think these days they just want to sell you a new MSD distributor.Used to be you could dodge that bullet by saying"oh they don't make one for my app" but not any more.There are guys on other forums that do it as a side business one that I can think of had username Ignitionman but its been a while,I think if you google his username some of the forums with his posts may come up.
 

427John

Well Known Member
Ok was able to get some stats. With vac disconnected @2500 I set total advance to 36. That gave me intial timing @idle of 21. WITH vac advance at that setting I get 32 at Idle and 48 at 2500. front throttle curb idle is almost closed while rear curb idle is what I use for 950 rpm. Thats about as low as it like to go. I suspect that initial timing of 21 W/o vac. is too high but according to Lars its not that far off.
I did attempt to get readings with one spring removed but that increased no vac idle to 25 and the total stayed at 36. Then my trusty old Craftsman dial back took a crap
If I am reading this post right its saying that your vacuum advance is providing 11-12 degrees and that your mechanical is providing 15 with 2 springs and 25 with 1 spring at 2500 rpm,if so if it were mine I would put a bushing on the limiting pin so that it would give a max of 19 when it hit the stop and then spring it so it gave you all that by 2500-2700,that way you can back off your initial and still get the total you want.When you checked to see what your vacuum advance gave did you use running manifold vacuum or a hand pump to find the maximum?I would use a handpump to find the max. and then limit the stroke to the 11-12,that way you know no matter what manifold vacuum goes to it will still give a max of 11-12,some guys have split a flat washer and tacked it to the slot to limit the travel.This setup would allow you to set your initial at 17,still give you 36 total,and limit your total + vacuum to 47-48,it also allows you to back off your initial a couple of degrees if the total turns out to be too much.
 

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
I may just pop for an adjustable pot but out there today I verified I am into the transfer slots on the rear carb. Front carb idle screw is all the way out and blades closed. In order to keep it at 950 i have to go 2 1/2 turns in to get that idle so definitely into the transfers from the looks of things. Mixture screws are not responding very well like this.
Tomorrow I am going to try and split the difference front and rear idle screws and see if that helps me close down the front blades a little I have an old 61 Pontiac Carter for parts and it has 1/16 holes drilled in the primary blades. it also uses an air screw in front. Strange carb. Not sure if someone along the line drilled them or if Pontiac spec’d it. I am wondering if I should try the blades in my carb and if that would help allow me to turn out the idle screw on my rear carb. Anyone have a rear carb on the shelf to look at the primary blade numbers. Dont want to drill mine just to experiment0A7DC9B1-FD5F-47D1-9B15-663EC57B4E5C.jpeg
 

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
Try opening up the front idle screws a little although that may mean leaning the rears a like amount.Also make sure that front carb is completely[ idle speed srew]]closed at an idle.You've got good vacuum so this may be a mixture balance issue.Working that dist.on a Sun machine is never a bad idea in the right hands either.

Don I am using a stock front 3361 so no mixture screws up there but still going to try and split the idle screws and see what happens first before I go anywhere further with the throttle blades.
 

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
I have asked this before, however I never got an answer. Is there a company in the states that recurves distributors.
Im working on it. One guys machine is down awaiting capacitors and the other guy hasnt used his in years but he is trying to find someone too.
 

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
If I am reading this post right its saying that your vacuum advance is providing 11-12 degrees and that your mechanical is providing 15 with 2 springs and 25 with 1 spring at 2500 rpm,if so if it were mine I would put a bushing on the limiting pin so that it would give a max of 19 when it hit the stop and then spring it so it gave you all that by 2500-2700,that way you can back off your initial and still get the total you want.When you checked to see what your vacuum advance gave did you use running manifold vacuum or a hand pump to find the maximum?I would use a handpump to find the max. and then limit the stroke to the 11-12,that way you know no matter what manifold vacuum goes to it will still give a max of 11-12,some guys have split a flat washer and tacked it to the slot to limit the travel.This setup would allow you to set your initial at 17,still give you 36 total,and limit your total + vacuum to 47-48,it also allows you to back off your initial a couple of degrees if the total turns out to be too much.

As I drop down in initial I drop down in engine RPM at idle which means I have to turn the damn idle screw in more to keep (950) it running which is hurting me by uncovering the transfer slots. Which then is probably causing my dieseling.
 

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
Will it idle below 950?
Not really. It just falls out any lower than that. Just thinking out loud but in the morning I am going to adjust my way as low as I can and see if its even possible to add mixture fuel and cut back on the idle screw. I doubt it but its worth looking at
 

427John

Well Known Member
I may just pop for an adjustable pot but out there today I verified I am into the transfer slots on the rear carb. Front carb idle screw is all the way out and blades closed. In order to keep it at 950 i have to go 2 1/2 turns in to get that idle so definitely into the transfers from the looks of things. Mixture screws are not responding very well like this.
Tomorrow I am going to try and split the difference front and rear idle screws and see if that helps me close down the front blades a little I have an old 61 Pontiac Carter for parts and it has 1/16 holes drilled in the primary blades. it also uses an air screw in front. Strange carb. Not sure if someone along the line drilled them or if Pontiac spec’d it. I am wondering if I should try the blades in my carb and if that would help allow me to turn out the idle screw on my rear carb. Anyone have a rear carb on the shelf to look at the primary blade numbers. Dont want to drill mine just to experimentView attachment 83030
The drilling holes in the throttle blades used to be a fairly common method of coping with a big cam,to prevent exactly the issues your dealing with now having to open the throttle blades enough to uncover the transfer slots and then idle mixtures become unresponsive,the huge advantage you have is the second carb that allows you to split your idle air between the 2 possibly preventing the need to drill holes.The downside is it also complicates your idle mixture tuning.
 

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
What happens when you cover the front carburetor?
Interesting question !! If both primary and secondaries are fully closed it shouldn’t affect it. I know there is an off idle supply once the blades are cracked. Going to give that a try as well. John I am hoping I can walk that fine line and get a balance to keep the transfer slots closed off. The Pontiac carb can be used if the blades are the same size if I need to experiment. The running on has been driving me nuts for years but I just shut it off with the clutch pedal. So now another quick question. Could the step up springs play a part at idle ?
 

427John

Well Known Member
If your idle vacuum is dropping low enough they could.With the transfer slots starting to get exposed that also brings that circuit into play.
 
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