Great story of the family history with the car. 
If they ask if it is a 409 you just say no it's a 434.
If they ask if it is a 409 you just say no it's a 434.
Feedback on 348 to 434 build plan
- Thread starter Deadwolf
- Start date
Great story of the family history with the car.
If they ask if it is a 409 you just say no it's a 434.
Actually I could say it is a 427 bored .030 over. As a 4" stroke with the standard bore of a 348 (4.125) is 427. something cubic inches. That will throw everyone for a loop.
Speaking for all 348 users. The question about using a 348 over a 409 is the same argument used for Eddy heads vs. Walla's. Money. spending a bunch of money just to buy a 409 block seems foolish for most people wanting to dip their toes into the W motor family fun. Besides I have a fun 434 that can spank every stock 409 ever built for less money than simply building a 409 back to stock specs let alone a bunch of performance upgrades. I hate to say this guys but if you are willing to buy and build a cast iron 409 block then for a little more you could have an aluminum block from Walla. The last 409 I priced was around $2k as a low compression truck block (yes they can be found cheaper) The classifieds are full of 348's for $500 or cheaper. Cast 409 plus machine shop tab = aluminum block "for a little more".
I'm done kicking the hornets nest, I'm going to run for my life now.
I'm done kicking the hornets nest, I'm going to run for my life now.
Speaking for all 348 users. The question about using a 348 over a 409 is the same argument used for Eddy heads vs. Walla's. Money. spending a bunch of money just to buy a 409 block seems foolish for most people wanting to dip their toes into the W motor family fun. Besides I have a fun 434 that can spank every stock 409 ever built for less money than simply building a 409 back to stock specs let alone a bunch of performance upgrades. I hate to say this guys but if you are willing to buy and build a cast iron 409 block then for a little more you could have an aluminum block from Walla. The last 409 I priced was around $2k as a low compression truck block (yes they can be found cheaper) The classifieds are full of 348's for $500 or cheaper. Cast 409 plus machine shop tab = aluminum block "for a little more".
I'm done kicking the hornets nest, I'm going to run for my life now.
While I agree with the message you are conveying and I thought the Eddy heads vs. Walla heads price wise were a done deal, I highly encourage anyone looking at buying the Eddy heads making the assumption they are significantly cheaper than the Walla heads to contact Bob Walla first. Unless you are getting some significant discount on the Eddy heads for being a frequent shopper you may just end up getting a set of Walla heads as well.
Good comment: "Speaking for all 348 users. The question about using a 348 over a 409 is the same argument used for Eddy heads vs. Walla's. Money. spending a bunch of money just to buy a 409 block seems foolish for most people wanting to dip their toes into the W motor family fun."
Either block gets the same treatment. Let's start by noting that if you do some stuff yourself you will spend approximately $9K-$10K for components and machine shop labor from that point forward. The value of the resulting 409 will be about that cost, but try to sell a built 348 for $10K and you won't find a lot of buyers. I guess that was my point. I tend to look at multiple projects simultaneously and I have to decide what limited resources I have should go into which project in order to stay "on budget". My objective is to have fun, but not to get "upside down" with a particular build. I guess if I had unlimited resources I would decide differently
.
I think it's great that one can build a super strong W out of a 348 base block, and once properly dressed out that 348 will look just as awesome as if it were a 409 build . Could it be that the value of the 348 block is on the rise?
Cheers! TomK
Either block gets the same treatment. Let's start by noting that if you do some stuff yourself you will spend approximately $9K-$10K for components and machine shop labor from that point forward. The value of the resulting 409 will be about that cost, but try to sell a built 348 for $10K and you won't find a lot of buyers. I guess that was my point. I tend to look at multiple projects simultaneously and I have to decide what limited resources I have should go into which project in order to stay "on budget". My objective is to have fun, but not to get "upside down" with a particular build. I guess if I had unlimited resources I would decide differently
.I think it's great that one can build a super strong W out of a 348 base block, and once properly dressed out that 348 will look just as awesome as if it were a 409 build
. Could it be that the value of the 348 block is on the rise?Cheers! TomK
...
I think it's great that one can build a super strong W out of a 348 base block, and once properly dressed out that 348 will look just as awesome as if it were a 409 build
Cheers! TomK
In my engine search locally I found two 409 blocks. Both truck blocks and both had weld repairs done to them. One was bare for about $1600 the other was a short block for more. People in general building W motors is a relatively small group when you compare it to the number of SBC, BBC, and lets not even get into the LS engine builders. A lot of the people in the W motor club snatch up blocks quick and leave them in storage for the next project. Honestly I think the value of the 348 will completely tank when and if Bob Walla releases a cast iron W engine block. 409 truck blocks will tank also. The only ones likely to hold their value are the 409 car blocks and that is only for those building an original car. If you had a choice between a 50 year old truck block that has no guarantee of condition for your impala build at say $1500 or a brand new W engine block capable of 509 cid for $3000 to $3500, this is just a rough guess of where I think a new cast iron block will level in the market at, which are you realistically going to go for?
One thing my Grandfather always told me about car projects, If you want to make money in cars, build cars for other people or sell parts. Never build a car for yourself as an investment, the money will do better in the stock market.
Question: Does the Eagle 4" stroker crank require additional work to work in a 348 block or does the block need additional clearancing?
Is the Scat 4" stroker crank the one that I read someplace as being a direct drop in and then all I have to worry about is the connecting rods?
Is the Scat 4" stroker crank the one that I read someplace as being a direct drop in and then all I have to worry about is the connecting rods?
Brian from show-cars says I will need to cut the counter weight on the Eagle .100 inches. Also apparently the advertised price for the stroker kit I was going to get is wrong. Now with shipping I can get the eagle set up with Icon pistons and Scat I beams for only about $150 dollars less than I can get the Scat kit on summit with H beams and Ross pistons. Just not a shelf kit for summit so I may have to wait a couple extra weeks, not that big of a deal to me.
Yes I know I don't need it, but it doesn't sit well with me when a company doesn't honor the pricing they have listed, so now I am looking into other sources. One of my friends here is a licensed NHRA driver and he is going to see what type of price he can get with his driver discount at Jegs. I sent an E-mail to Bob Walla to see what he has to offer to meet my needs as another avenue.
Dumb quaestion. What is the difference in the pan area from the 348 to 409. A 09 crank sits in the 348 with no cutting. Why would the Eagle need the counterweights cut.
This is a nice thread about the "W" engines. I know when I built my '56 Chevy wagon straight axle gasser, I purposely sought out a 348 engine. I wanted something different. I was tired of looking at sbc and bbc engines. I didn't know this site existed before my build, so I relied on what I read and my machinist. My 348 came out of a '61 car. I drove about 3 hrs. to pick it up and forgot check to see if it was free; not frozen. Guess I got caught up in the excitement. Got it home and then checked. Yup. Frozen. Took it apart. Five pistons came out fine. A 6th needed help. A 7th needed even more help and the 8th; oh boy. Had to knock it out with a wooden 2x4 and 8 lb. sledgehammer. Some of the cylinders appeared to have quite a lot of rust. I honestly thought I bought a boat anchor. Took it to the machine shop and the machinist thought he could clean it up which he did. Didn't need any sleeves. Bored .30 over. 396 rods. 454 crank. Edelbrock heads, intake and 750 carb. The cam is an Isky hydraulic and slightly a little more performance then the stock one. Pistons were custom made by Ross and the cr is 9.1:1. The motor was put together and installed in my gasser. It still runs well, but i did have an issue with a push rod guide plate. Overall, I am happy with this motor. There was some decent machine work done to fit the crank. The motor wasn't cheap to buy and rebuild. I'm thinking I have about $7000.00 in it. Give or take some. But, this is what I wanted. This motor is a torque monster. I have it bolted to a TH400 trans. with 3.55 posi. Spins the tires like crazy. I have no regrets. Now, for my '62 Impala, I wanted a 409. Purposely sought one out and bought a '63 car short block. Picked up heads and other parts over time and had it rebuilt. Had it dynode for adjustment purposes and break in only. This also wasn't cheap to do. Had an issue with it using an extreme amount of oil and the valve guides were the culprit. Once fixed, it runs great. I'm thinking that I have about $8500.00 in this motor. I just love the "W" engines. Whether they are a 348 or 409, I enjoy driving them a lot. There is just something about driving a car powered by a "W" engine. A sickness, I know, Carmine.
As Don usually points out, the problem with the most of "shelf" Ross pistons is a) they are pretty heavy and b) they usually are set up for 5/64" fat rings. My experience is the Scat kits are better quality than the Eagles in terms of crank machine work.
I hate, to go into this again.
If I had to, do it over again, I'd buy the Scat Crankshaft. The snout, on the Eagle Crank, was not exactly like the stock 409 crank. It caused misalignment issue's. 
My machinist had to shorten the hub, on the Harmonic Balancer, because my pulley's wouldn't line up. Besides that, the diameter of the snout was not true. My crank gear, would not slide all the way up, where it belonged. He had to remove some metal, from the crank gear. Then it slid on, and the timing chain ran true, top to bottom. The engine was already assembled, and luckily, my problems were corrected, without taking the engine apart. Had me worried though.
If I had to, do it over again, I'd buy the Scat Crankshaft. The snout, on the Eagle Crank, was not exactly like the stock 409 crank. It caused misalignment issue's. My machinist had to shorten the hub, on the Harmonic Balancer, because my pulley's wouldn't line up. Besides that, the diameter of the snout was not true. My crank gear, would not slide all the way up, where it belonged. He had to remove some metal, from the crank gear. Then it slid on, and the timing chain ran true, top to bottom. The engine was already assembled, and luckily, my problems were corrected, without taking the engine apart. Had me worried though.
Exactly. On mine the snout was undersize, had to remove .090 from the back of the crank gear, and the journals have taper and out of round. With the rods if you torque the caps a couple times, the big end will be out of round. No Eagle for me. Never again.
Knock on simulated wood grain, I didn't have problems with my 4" Eagle crank.
The block needed machining to clear the rods and bolts, but it wasn't much. The oil pan also had to be massaged to clear the front side of the1 and 2 connecting rods, but even that was minimal work.
The block needed machining to clear the rods and bolts, but it wasn't much. The oil pan also had to be massaged to clear the front side of the1 and 2 connecting rods, but even that was minimal work.