Fixin a Ronnie Russell Stroker..

[plumcrazy]

Hi All!...

Met a man years ago that had not a selfish bone in his body and learned today we lost him. Ronnie Russell was one of the kindest people ive ever met, and his enduring legacy is my commitment so am reaching out for a bit of help. Years ago we came to this site to build some history with my children. We wanted to build a 409 car and make an investment in history to early chevy and the men that were part of that legacy. I came with no idea what i was doing and with the kids in tow we bought a broken motor online. I came here searching for help, and received help in a life lesson not just a car fix. Ronnie stepped up with some other amazing men, Dave, Derry and on and on. Ronnie, never having met the man talked to us on the phone and only on a handshake sent our 409 for him to save. Well, long story short he fixed it with no payment other than doing what he loved.

Below is one of our early conversations before we enjoyed him as a friend. Now, im in trouble. We went out to our storage and although it looked clean, we fired her up and mouse stuff came flying from the exhaust. and so did water and coolant. Ive done a compression test and have 150-180 psi except in number 8, 120.. Whats the next steps?

Headed down now to pull the covers and drain the oil, will take pics...

Thank you in advanced...

 

[plumcrazy]

Hi Everyone!

So here's a link to all the pics and some vids of what we did today. Pulled the plugs, drained the oil and you can see it in the blue bucket. Verdict? It's been sitting for about 2 and a half yrs and holding my breath!

....

I put back in 8qts of 10-40 conventional just to turn it over without plugs and turned it over to see the pressure built to 80psi. Didnt like it took like 30/40 seconds, but it was cool here today. I dont see oil dripping off the block, so is our next step pressurizing the cooling system? Im hoping its not really bad.. When it shut off there was NO smoke of any kind, no white, dark, nothing...





https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bz3QlLOhJQEsdjIxd0FtbVFYdlE?usp=sharing

 

[jim_ss409]

I'm no expert but I'm going to guess that everything is just fine.

It used to be that when I had a cylinder with low compression, my first thought would be ring seal but in the case of an engine that's been sitting for some time, the low compression is often caused by a poor seal at the valves.
Sometimes you just get a bit of rust that forms on the valve seat. If that's the case, it should get a whole lot better once you've run it for a while.

If you have a leakdown tester or even a drilled out sparkplug with an air fitting, you can usually find out where the compression is going.
Bring the piston up to TDC on the compression stroke. (both valves will be closed)
Then pressurise the cylinder and listen for an air leak.
If you can hear air coming up through the carb, the intake valve isn't sealing.
If you can hear air coming out of the tailpipe, it's the exhaust.
If you can hear air coming out of the dipstick or air breathers, it's ring seal.

If you have a mechanical oil pressure gage with a long skinny tube, that could be the reason for the slow rise in oil pressure.

I'm thinking there's an excellent chance that all the engine needs is a bit of run time to get itself back into tip top shape.

 

[Don Jacks]

Was there any water in the oil? My concern is what's up with all that water? I agree with Jim on the mechanicals.After looking at those pictures,there's no sign of water in the oil in anything that shows up. External crack or rear intake gasket failure? What was your coolants freeze point setting?Did you'all have any extreme cold for an extended period of time during the last 2 winters?

 

[plumcrazy]

Hi everyone!

No water, not a drop in the oil that I could see. I have seen a blown engine before and the water separated from the oil and came out last, but in my case, i do not see any water drops in the oil, just that color looks like milk chocolate.......

As far as the cold, for sure it did get super cold but say how much. We live here in NH, so no telling. On the freeze plugs, their still in the block, so nothing seems a miss there and as far as i can tell i cant determine a crack in the block. I dont have a lift but got underneath and looked at the shine of the paint and didnt see a place where it was distorted..

I bought a leak down tester here, so on the way with that http://www.ebay.com/itm/142390381841?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Im guessing I should check the valve adjustments and see if number 7 is off because of that?

Now i wonder if im over reacting? When my wife hit the key, it fired right up, then i had her kill it because the glass fuel bowl leaked. When she tried again it was a "click" spark from the ground side of the battery and it wouldnt budge. Only till i pulled the plugs did it go. Could it have locked?

 

[plumcrazy]

I found this video on leak down testing. Can i follow minute 2:20 on?

 

[Don Jacks]

A simple radiator pressure pump is all that's needed here.Pump it to about 15 psi and let it sit.If there's a leak,the pressure will fall off,and coolant is going somewhere.At this point,have some one spin the engine with the starter while watching the number 8 hole especially,to see if anything is blown out internally,such as an intake gasket leaking water into the cylinders,head gasket,ect.The engine likely didn't "lock" ,the most likely thing was a corroded negative battery terminal connection as evidenced by the "spark" then nothing happening with the starter.Once the connection was restored,every thing worked as it should,cranking wise.

 

[427John]

While Don's observation is the most likely another possibility on the no cranking issue could be the starter drive stuck engaged with the flywheel ring gear this would explain why it would turn over when you pulled the plugs.The starter motor needs a bit of a running start before starter drive engages to be able to turn the engine over with compression.If its been sitting for a while the grease in the starter drive may have dried out causing it to be sticky,also a starter with inadequate drive to ring gear clearance can cause them to hang up,but that is usually accompanied by noisy starting,everybody has heard that at some time,just means that it needs to be shimmed out some.If this recurs try rocking the engine back and forth with the fan if you don't have clutch fan and if you do with a wrench on the balancer bolt if you hear the starter drive retract and the engine will then start normally you may need to pull the starter to clean and regrease the drive and inspect for proper clearance.

 

[plumcrazy]

Pressure tester on the way! http://www.ebay.com/itm/262112675025?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Once I get it in ill do the test and pray. I hope this is all over reaction, but cant blame me. When your wife says omg, theres water and oil pouring from the underside of the trailer when she fired, i blacked out and nearly lost consciousness, dizzy, light headed, lost all sound in my head, ha! Im hoping like hell it was water and oil because the kids helped me rinse off the motor before we fired her so no grime baked on...

Quick q guys. Before the two testers show up and i can do the leakdown and coolant test, i'll drain all the old fuel and get new plugs. Ronnie would have kicked my behind for trying to burn off the old stuff....She has the edlebrock aluminum heads, what plugs and gaps should i use with those and how should i set the valves to be safe? I did just order some head gaskets in case....

Old stories...

Heres our old stroker build thread here and couldnt be where I am without the help of our friends of the past...Brian Thompson, Dave Smith, Derry.. Brian has such a nice car, if your into builds, look up his profile. Dave, super wrench, and Derry came by helping (i think Ronnie sent him :>)) to the house to help us fire betsy for the first time, ha! He would walk like a peacock when ronnie called his cell. Funny, whenever ronnie wanted me to call, he would simply email, "call me", and start with a slow, Wellllll", ha....

Heres a video of it starting for the first time.. Actually, the first video it didnt start and you can see all the kids running around... Derry was loving it by video try 9, she fired and the kids freaked...

http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/plumcrazy-62-ss-stroker-build.15636/#post-133690

 

[Don Jacks]

Kurt,Get replacements of the same plugs that you have now,measure the gap on the old ones[likely .035-.040],and use the same gap on the new ones.As to the valve lash,what kind of cam is in there now[Hyd.flat,hyd.roller,mechanical flat,mechanical roller]? If it's hydraulic,leave it alone,if mechanical,check with the info that Ronnie gave you as to the clearances needed.I would,at this point,simply measure what the clearences are now.The only way that they'll cause a low compression reading is if one of the valves is way too tight.

 

[plumcrazy]

Hi Guys. engine spec is below, and i have the edelbrock hi-po aluminum heads on there as we speak......


Specs
409 BLOCK,NOW 482 CUBIC INCH STROKER ROLLER MOTOR- CASTING# 3857656
-EAGLE 4340 BIG BLOCK 4”CRANKSHAFT
-EAGLE 6.135 H-BEAM RODS
-4 BOLT MAIN (CRANK MADE TO FIT BLOCK)
-BIG BLOCK MAINS
-11.25 LAMAR WALDEN FORGED PISTONS
-COMP CAMS ROLLER CAM-(4874-4875 GRIND, 110 LOBE CENTER/ 242 @ 50 INTAKE , 646 LIFT/
248 @ 50 EXHAUST, 653 LIFT)
-COMP CAMS ROLLER LIFTERS
-MANLEY .080 PUSHRODS
-ROLLER TIMING CHAIN
--ARP BOLTS

409 HI-PO HEADS-CATING# 3814690, DATE CODES B1462 & B1562

-LARGE PORT HIGH PERFORMANCE HEADS
- NICELY PORTED & POLISHED
-MANLEY STAINLESS 11/32 VALVES, 2.20 INTAKE, 1.735 EXHAUST
-COMP CAMS ROLLER SPRINGS, PART# 947-16
-TITANIUM RETAINERS
-LAMAR WALDEN GUIDE PLATES
-NEW VALVE GUIDES,VITON VALVE STEM SEALS
-ARP ROCKER STUDS
-ALUMINUM ROLLER ROCKERS

 

[Don Jacks]

OK ,This sounds like a mechanical roller cam.I'm sure that Ronnie gave you the valve lash settings so you could maintain the engine .He may have even given his preferred cold lash settings just to make life eaiser.If all that you have is the cam card,the settings there are for hot engine lash.If that's the case,check[measure] the lash that you're seeing now with the engine cold,and if the intakes are within .004-.005 of the specs.listed on the card,leave it alone.The same applies to the exhaust settings.The differences between hot and cold lash is usually in that range so you'll be fine there.This has the makings of one quite healthy[well over 500hp] engine!

 

[plumcrazy]

Oh geeze, , does anyone have his cold settings? I always just called, and he would walk me through it...

 

[Don Jacks]

The cold lash settings will be .004-.005 tighter than the hot settings on the cam card.

 

[plumcrazy]

Thanks Don...

Looking at this card, sounds like I need to hit .18 and .22. That right?......

 

[Don Jacks]

Cold would be 010 intake-.014 exhaust.Don't worry,your Eddie heads will have more expansion,and do it quicker than the 690's or 583 iron heads will.When the engine is fully warmed up,your clearences will be with in .002 of the card specs.This is a very nice street cam!

 

[plumcrazy]

Thanks Don!

Quick update...Got the leakdown tester in the mail and was able to sneek down in the garage to do a quick test. The instructions say each cylinder within 5%. In #1, it looks right to me so wanted to check before i went too far. In the other pic, the corer of the oil makes me scared. Is this for sure bad or a possibility that its moisture from the 2+ years of storage???

Last q, is it best to now go from 1 through the firing order so i dont have to spin it over more than once?

 

[Ishiftem]

Coolant coming out the exhaust + peanut butter in the chocolate says to me intake gasket,head gasket, or a crack.

 

[Don Jacks]

Yep,somethings not right.When you hook up that pressure tester,take off the radiator cap and look for bubbles in the coolant.

 

[plumcrazy]

Uggg.

Describing the way Im doing it so if im wrong y'all can fix us :>)....

Pulled the rad cap, oil filler cap, and all plugs.. Went to TDC on compression stroke and hooked up. Added the 100psi, and listened for air. I did it wrong the first time and was on the exhaust, so rotated with my breaker bar .

#1, no signs of anything in coolant so today leaving work early to get home and move slowly through 8,4,5,6,3,7,2, and pucker through each one...

No signs of the coolant pressure tester yet. Ordered on ebay, says monday, but will head to some local auto stores on the way home and buy one. Cant wait...