front springs, chevytaylor, Tom Kochtanek and others

[petepedlar]

chevytaylor
Quote:
Maybe try a set of heavy duty 62 station wagon front springs to get a little more height. I know that when I ran these springs in my Bubbletop approximately 1 3/4"- 1 7/8" was gained from stock.
__________________


Hey Carl, this is your quote from an old post about front springs. When you used the station wagon springs what difference did it make to the ride of the car??

I put 2" drop spindles on my '61. The reason mostly being cost. I wanted disc brakes on the front and I found a real good deal on the spindles. The car now sits way to low, but it has the original springs under it and I think they are finished. She lays over even on a slow turn. I need to get it up between 1 & 2". By your post the wagon springs will be perfect. If it's a little stiffer it would be great...... I have read that they are really stiff and will make it ride like a lumber wagon.....


Tom Kochtanek

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Quote:
Mine sits up in the front as well, never took measurements, but just from "eye appeal". When I rebuilt the front and rear I went back with "station wagon" springs which I was told were correct for the 409 that year (1962).

Tom, I found another old post and you have wagon springs under your car..... how is the ride & handleing????


Thanks
Dave

 

[tripower]

Dave I have the wagon springs in my car as well with dropped spindles. I think the Moog 6005 or maybe 6003 rings a bell. The ride is a bit stiffer but I think it is fine.

 

[petepedlar]

Thanks Dan........ I found another old post that says they are 6004's. I just wanted an opinion before I went to the trouble of putting them in.... I kind of figured they would be good....... and a wagon probably isn't any heavier on the front than a car ...... I've driven a lot of wagons over the years and found them fine.

Dave

 

[Norm]

I am pretty sure my '62 Belair sedan has station wagon springs in front. I bought the car 2 years ago & assume it has station wagon springs since it sits higher in front than rear. I like the stance a lot. Go to photo albums--member galleries-page 8 & click on Norm to see pic. If you enlarge pic you can get good view of stance. Car handles good, a little stiff as expected, but I like it that way.

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

Up front

My '62 does sit up a bit higher than one would expect. I had thought of cutting one or two inches off, but I might also go with some 2" drop spindles and disk brakes I have sitting around. If I don't go with the brakes, I will cut the coils a bit .

But it drives and handles well, as well as big ol' Chevy can handle!

Cheers,
TomK

 

[Phil Reed]

There were about 24 different part numbers if you ordered springs from Chevrolet back in the day. (Kinda rhymes...doesn't it!!!) Well now you basically have 2 springs to choose from....standard and heavy duty. The Moog numbers are 6004 for the fronts and 6033 for the rears for the heavy duty. That's what we have been using for years. I believe they are around $115 for a pair. Am guessing from home on that!!!!

 

[RCE1962]

Hey Dave

Here's an excerpt from another old thread. BTW I also replaced the standard front stabilizer bar with a “1” inch version last year, as well as, custom-made links... and corners much better than before.

Quote
Just to set things straight. I happened to go the shop that ordered and installed the coil spings today. I was originally told that these would be Moog Springs. However, I was told today that these are "Spicer" coil springs. Part Numbers and description provided below. Not sure how they compare to Moog.

SPICER Part # 5891001 {Sold in Pairs -- Professional Grade / Inside Diameter=3.65" Wire Diameter=.718" Free Height=17.12" Load height=11.25"}
Rear Heavy Duty; 4 Dr. Station Wagon; 6 Passenger.

SPICER Part # 5851006 {Sold in Pairs -- Professional Grade / Inside Diameter=3.81" Wire Diameter=.69" Free Height=16.89" Load height=11.81"}
Front; Air Conditioning; SS

This raised the total ride height of the car, but I think the original springs were pretty tired to begin with.

Ron

 

[petepedlar]

Hey Ron and Phil, thanks for the part numbers....... I'll get some ordered in the next couple of days.

I put a big sway bar on the rear..... and I did have one for the front. I couldn't get enough clearance past the pitman arm on the 605 box. I just put the factory one back on for now.

I gave the 1" one to a friend for his '64. He was pretty happy...... a couple of weeks later he told me I was trying to put it on the wrong way. He switched it side for side and it fit like a glove...... :takethat

....... stupid fool that I am........

Dave

 

[chevytaylor]

chevytaylor
Quote:
Maybe try a set of heavy duty 62 station wagon front springs to get a little more height. I know that when I ran these springs in my Bubbletop approximately 1 3/4"- 1 7/8" was gained from stock.
__________________


Hey Carl, this is your quote from an old post about front springs. When you used the station wagon springs what difference did it make to the ride of the car??

I put 2" drop spindles on my '61. The reason mostly being cost. I wanted disc brakes on the front and I found a real good deal on the spindles. The car now sits way to low, but it has the original springs under it and I think they are finished. She lays over even on a slow turn. I need to get it up between 1 & 2". By your post the wagon springs will be perfect. If it's a little stiffer it would be great...... I have read that they are really stiff and will make it ride like a lumber wagon.....

Dave, the wagon springs made for a stiffer ride for sure but not in a bad way from what I can remember. I removed them because I didn't like the nose of the car sitting up so high. Your idea of using them with the 2" drop spindles sounds like a good one. Got them through Late Great Chevy back in the late nineties.

 

[petepedlar]

Here's what I have found out about front springs, thanks to everyone here and an old Moog Spring book that was hiding at Richmond Engines...... go figure why a spring book was at the engine shop. ??? Well Jim went through the front spring decission years ago when he built his '65 Chevelle and still had the book.

Swiss Impala has an old GM book which lists all the factory front spring info. There were different springs from the factory, but surprisingly there was no different spring listed for wagons. All the 409 cars with automatics and the 425 HP four speed used the heaviest front springs.

There was different free heights listed from 15.2" to 17.63 but all of the cars had an installed height of 10.5". There was different spring rates with the softest being 275 lbs to a high of 370 lbs with the tallest being the softest.

In the Moog book you can cross most of the Gm numbers over to a Moog number.
Some examples:

GM #3827036 = Moog 6000 This was the softest spring from the factory on a 409 car. Free height 17.63 spring rate 270 lbs.

GM #3827038 = Moog 6084 This was a stiff spring, free height 15.3" and spring rate of 370 lbs.

GM #3827034 = Moog 662A Soft spring not used on 409 cars

GM #3827039 = Moog 658A Stiff spring not used on 409 cars

GM #3827033 = Moog 6304 Soft spring not used on 409 cars

most common spring for the 409 automatic & 4 speed cars was GM# 3827104 which is not listed in the Moog book. It has almost exactly the same spec as GM #3827039 or Moog 658A or Moog 6084, 10.5 ride height and 370 lb spring rate.

658A is listed for
Chevrolet
65-68 All
58 All
59-68 Belair
59-62 Belair Wagon
59-68 Biscayne
59-62 Biscayne Wagon
58 Brookswood
68 Caprice
62-68 Impala
61-62 Nomad
60 Kingswood


Phil's 6004 doesn't seem to cross to a GM number for our cars. But it is listed in the Moog book as fitting:

Chevrolet
59 - 60 All
60-64 Belair
60-62 Belair Wagon
60-64 Biscayne
60-62 Biscayne Wagon
60-64 Impala
60-61 Nomad Wagon

The bonus, I think............ with the 6004 is that it has a spring rate of 325 lbs and a free height of 18.7 and an installed height of 11.81" So it is in between the 275 and 370 spring rates of the factory offerings and has an installed height of 1.31 inches higher........... with my 2" drop spindles the car should sit .69" lower than stock and have a medium ride.
I took my info to a spring shop that I deal with and they said I was correct and that the spring will settle another .5" after it has held the car up for a while.

Basically after it settles down it's 1/2" it's about .7" higher than a stock spring on stock spindles.

PERFECT !! ......... thanks Phil !!

So I orderd up my 6004 springs, they're in stock and I have them the next day. Now I have read all about the horrors of changing coil springs and I am not looking forward to this job. But here we go...... You know what guys ????? ...... I think the secret is to having a good spring compressor. I have a KD one that I bought a couple of years ago because I knew I was going to need it for my '38 Chevy. Sort of the high side of the middle when it comes to tools I think.... at least it's not junk.... I never had a problem installing those springs....... the first one took about 4 hours but the second was done in two hours. A couple of things I learned.... one I was told.... when you are bringing up the lower A arm with the new spring in place it comes up on an arc. I used 2 bottle jacks, only lifting the arm about an inch with one jack and then switching to the other jack. If you keep going with one it will lean over and it will kick out because of the arc. The other thing that I figured out made a huge difference on the second spring is that I greased the bottom saddle in the A arm. The spring just slipped into place so easily with the grease....... As I said the secret I think is the spring compressor..... you have to be able to squeeze that spring down and know it's going to hold it !! ......(in my case) from it's free height, 18.7 inches to about 12 or 13" for it to fit into place when you start to lift the A arm.

That being done..... today I took her for a good drive..... it handles 100% better..... I had my sister with me for a while and she was amazed at the ride.... I do think it's a perfect spring......

Thanks Again to everyone and I am learning that I should just listen to Phil (but I hate to admit that)

Dave

 

[Phil Reed]

Thanks Again to everyone and I am learning that I should just listen to Phil (but I hate to admit that)

Dave

I'm choosing to take this as a compliment????!!!!!

Yes...I know it is!!!! But............why do you hate to admit it??????

 

[petepedlar]

why do you hate to admit it??????

Just giving you a hard time !

Dave

 

[skipxt4]

What spring compressor?

The secret is a good Spring Compressor. That's what I thought too, Dave. My son and I installed my front springs (658A) on my Chevy, this past summer. I have two different style spring compressors. I asked Mark, which one should we use. His answer " what do you need a compressor for "? We install coils on Dodge Rams at the dealership and don't use spring compressors. I repeated myself again. Mark, I installed station wagon coils on my 64 conv. years ago, and I know a coil spring compressor IS needed. Dad, we don't need a compressor. Anyway, we jacked the car up. Put jackstands under the frame. Put a floor jack under lower control arm, and removed lower ball joint from spindle. Turned brake drum to the side and wired it, out of the way. Lowered floor jack and coil fell out on the ground. Pulled the lower control way down, and installed new, painted, coil on lower control arm and jacked the control arm into place. He held the coil in place, while I worked the jack.:eek: Connected the lower ball joint to the spindle and DONE. I couldn't believe what I just seen. Didn't even scratch the RED paint on the springs. I waited for the spring to rebound, and fly out, but it didn't happen. Maybe our way of doing things, is becoming obsolete. I don't know. These springs lifted the front up maybe 2" .

 

[tripower]

The secret is a good Spring Compressor. That's what I thought too, Dave. My son and I installed my front springs (658A) on my Chevy, this past summer. I have two different style spring compressors. I asked Mark, which one should we use. His answer " what do you need a compressor for "? We install coils on Dodge Rams at the dealership and don't use spring compressors. I repeated myself again. Mark, I installed station wagon coils on my 64 conv. years ago, and I know a coil spring compressor IS needed. Dad, we don't need a compressor. Anyway, we jacked the car up. Put jackstands under the frame. Put a floor jack under lower control arm, and removed lower ball joint from spindle. Turned brake drum to the side and wired it, out of the way. Lowered floor jack and coil fell out on the ground. Pulled the lower control way down, and installed new, painted, coil on lower control arm and jacked the control arm into place. He held the coil in place, while I worked the jack.:eek: Connected the lower ball joint to the spindle and DONE. I couldn't believe what I just seen. Didn't even scratch the RED paint on the springs. I waited for the spring to rebound, and fly out, but it didn't happen. Maybe our way of doing things, is becoming obsolete. I don't know. These springs lifted the front up maybe 2" .

Skip, That is the way I do it all the time. I have two spring compressors as well but haven't used them in over twenty years....

 

[skipxt4]

I learned something new, Dan. It's still kinda scary. I had a spring come out on me, once, when I was a kid and thought I knew it all. Just missed my head.:eek:That was with the double hook style compressors.

 

[Skip FIx]

I just put springs on a Camaro. All the new double hooks I got hold of don't have the right curve in them to really hang on the the coil so they would pop off. Finally gave up and just slowly pried it into the pocket while jacking up the control arm.

 

[W Head]

spring compresser

If you do use a spring compresser, be sure to get one of good quality with fine threads (like Snap On). If you get a cheap one with large threads, it will most likely gauld and you can't screw it eather way, another voice of experance-you get what you pay for!

W Head

59 El Camino 348-3,2s
59 Impala 409-2,4s

 

[poison ivy]

front springs,58 chevy

had original 58 chevy 348 motor, dealer purchased station wagon springs installed in 58 bel are spt cpe, many years ago, ride height in front up 2", with air bags in rear,tall tires sits level....works very good for me...

 

[petepedlar]

Moog 6004 springs

Here's the stance of my Impala with the HD Moog 6004 springs and 2" drop spindles. ......... everyone has their own idea of how a car should sit but I think this is perfect. It's exactly what I wanted. The car rides and handles great. The roll in the corners is almost gone.

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[PAINTJOHN1]

When I redid my 64' suspension 4 years ago I used this guy for springs.Company is called Shocks 2 Springs,believe he's located in Colorado.He will make you any heighth you want for your car.Just let him know what your car is and motor size and heighth you want.Takes about 10 days to get the parts,prices are really reasonable.He's been in business 50 years,advertising in Hemmings. Phone number is 1-800-344-1966.Websight is www.shocks2springs.com. His name is Mark,also will make air shocks even if they are not avialiable,load leveler shocks as well. I enclosed a picture to show my Chevy ride heighth.It sits about 1 -2" higher in the front with the rear end up about 2" as well. John

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