Hard Starting 327...

[Impalaguru]

I've been working on a friends 63 Impala conv with a 327. At one time the engine wiring harness was modified for an MSD box and a different distributor. The + side of the coil was powered straight off the fuse box with an add-on ballast resistor. It always started good and ran fine.
The MSD and other distributor have since been removed and a stock-type distributor installed. Coil still powered off the fuse box. Ran and started good.
Well, last night I removed the mess of spaghetti and wired up the coil to the stock engine harness. Since then, the engine is hard to start hot or cold.
There is a pink wire and a black wire with a fabric loom on the outside to the + side of the coil.
Now, I should say that the coil has been moved to the firewall (long story) and my stock wiring isn't long enough so I have the two wires going to a singe, larger gauge wire, hooked to the + terminal. The pink wire has copper wire in it and the black with fabric shielding has wire that looks like steel or aluminum. Is this the resistor wire?
Other things...I did "adjust" the dwell and think I've got it where it needs to be although I think it was fine before just by trial and error. Don't have my meter with me. Haven't touched it since hooking back up to the stock wiring loom.
Also this engine has very large plug wires (totally unnecessary) and some kind of special spark plugs. Accell I think. (at one time this 327 was going to set the world on fire but turned out to be the biggest pig known to man. I've been removing all the racecar crap and it's ran better with every return to stock)
Does this need a ballast resistor on the hot wire to the coil? Or is the double insulated wire the resistor wire? My other 327s never has a ballast resistor. Did I burn the points messing with the dwell without a meter?
Also, there is a pink wire that is supposed to go to the starter that is not hooked up as this engine has a high-torque starter that I guess doesn't need that wire. Could this be part of the circuit for my pink wire to the coil? Maybe the reason the top switch is now hot-wired?
My stock, original 409 engine harness has been a help but it is different and not a convertible.
Any help would be great!!!!
Ross

 

[dq409]

A couple things that caught my eye.
How do you mess with the dwell if you don't have a dwell meter?

And you never checked the points?

Using a dwell meter is just a very fine tuning of the point gap.
I would remove the dizzy cap and check the points and adjust them with a feeler guage if they are in good shape.
If not, change them.

Dump the fancy plugs and get the right AC plugs,,,, and maybe the wires also,,,

I would think that the problem is the points are out of adjustment,,,

 

[petepedlar]

You need to make sure it's getting 12 volts on the start circuit as well. If it's got a resistor in it it will be hard to start on 6 or 8 volts.

Dave

 

[Impalaguru]

Thanks for the reply, Guys!

When I was adjusting the dwell I did the old trick of turning them in until the engine stumbled and then backed them off. Not very exacting but it still ran and started fine until I removed the hot wire to the coil.

Those plugs and wires are my next item of disposal. I'm sure they were expensive but they look terrible and I'm sure are not doing me any good.

Dave, I'll check to see if I'm getting 12v to the coil.

Ross

 

[oldskydog]

Ross,
I don't have a 63 wiring diagram, so I'm working off a 62. The wiring color codes may be different but the basic wiring should be pretty much the same. If you have a pink wire that should go to the starter and the other end goes to the coil, that should be the full 12 volts for starting. That wire was dark green in 62. It's 20 ga and goes on the R terminal of the starter solenoid. When the starter solenoid is engaged it shoots 12 volts to the coil, bypassing the resistor. The other wire to the coil must be the resistor wire although it was 20 ga white with a red and black trace in 62. The guage and length of the wire affect the resistance. By adding a heavier guage wire to make it longer you increased the resistance and since the pink wire is not connected to the R term on the starter, you have no full 12 volt source for starting so you are starting on probably less than 6 volts. Actually, I believe the resistor wire is not powered when the switch in in the start position, so I don't know how you are even getting that, unless the switch has been rewired.

Surely, somebody has a 63 wiring diagram to confirm the colors and connections.

 

[Impalaguru]

Cecil,
Thanks for the info! The pink wire is the same as the DG wire in 62. I went over to work on the car today and when the ignition switch is on I have 12V at the coil. Didn't check it cranking. Now I know what the pink wire is for! I thought that's what it had to be since it didn't take its power from the fuse box.
Unfortunately there is a stupid, high-torque Hitatchi starter on there now. Only the violet wire (S terminal) and the battery cable are hooked up. The pink is just taped back. I can't get a good look at the starter to see where the pink wire would even go. Maybe I can get a stock starter on there and fix this issue.
Lots of things need to be un-done to this car!!!

There might be some more resistance now. The extra wire isn't too much heavier but it is heaver than 20 gauge and its about 12 inches long. Since I went back to the stock wiring I've had a dieseling problem. Timing and dwell are set within spec. Never had the issue before.

Ross

 

[DonSSDD]

I have a high torque on my 59, it is wired different than a normal starter. You might check with the supplier of the starter to see how to wire a 63, that is likely the source of your problem, it is not getting 12 volts when the starter is engaged. Mine is not an Hitachi. I also have Pertronics, which adds another change to the equation.

Don

 

[oldskydog]

Ross,
I checked the 64 wiring diagramand it shows the resistance wire to the coil as a 20 ga white with orange and purple trace. The wire from the R term on the starter solenoid is 20 ga black with pink. Your blck fabric insulated wire doesn't sound right. Did this car have a factory tach or TI ignition ?
I would say the quickest way to solve the starting problem is to run 12 volts from the IGN term on the ignition switch and forget about the resistance wire for now. When you get the starter thing figured out then put the coil back on the intake and convert the wiring back to original.
:

 

[wbc409]

Most high torq mini starters use a one wire lead to the solenoid. I have one on my 71 chev pickup. To get it to work right I had to mt a ford solenoid on the firewall. Summit racing sells a complete kit to do this also. It sounds like you're restoring this car, so I would put a stock style starter in it

 

[Impalaguru]

WBC, Thanks for the info on the ford-style relay. I didn't know about that. Yes, this car is going back stock. Mostly just so that it's easier to work on. Not that it isn't already but you should have seen where it was when I started! Too many pooly-planned aftermarket parts and too many variables along with them.
I've got a stock starter ordered from the parts store. Now I just need to find some stock exhaust manifolds, stock dipstick tube...
Thanks again
Ross