How to destroy a piece of 348-409 Mickey Thompson Power Ram history one part at a time because you can.

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
The only way to find stuff out is by working on it. I give him two of these! :good:good
I agree. In this case there is no comparison of how it performed before vs the results he will get after all of that work so not going to find out much other than the engine still runs in this case. There are no variables to compare/consider because there is no before and after testing. I'm all for improving anything but I accept that even if I put a LS engine in a Mustang it will never be a Chevy car. To many people don't consider or understand that race engines aren't meant to go get groceries/ice cream. Taking an intake that is designed for racing in the 4000-7500rpm range is silly to chop up to make it more streetable. At that point people are better to just buy an LS and get the simulated W motor valve cover covers. LOL! I'm all for every car guy to run 1000hp 800+ci engines on the street but there will always be that one guy that will want to Fill the block in, modifying it to 454ci when they should have just started out with the right equipment to begin with. I would be more impressed with a fully fabricated cross ram. That would blow my mind and cost less then taking a $2k intake and chop it up. :dunno2
 

63 dream'n

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
I agree. In this case there is no comparison of how it performed before vs the results he will get after all of that work so not going to find out much other than the engine still runs in this case. There are no variables to compare/consider because there is no before and after testing. I'm all for improving anything but I accept that even if I put a LS engine in a Mustang it will never be a Chevy car. To many people don't consider or understand that race engines aren't meant to go get groceries/ice cream. Taking an intake that is designed for racing in the 4000-7500rpm range is silly to chop up to make it more streetable. At that point people are better to just buy an LS and get the simulated W motor valve cover covers. LOL! I'm all for every car guy to run 1000hp 800+ci engines on the street but there will always be that one guy that will want to Fill the block in, modifying it to 454ci when they should have just started out with the right equipment to begin with. I would be more impressed with a fully fabricated cross ram. That would blow my mind and cost less then taking a $2k intake and chop it up. :dunno2
The entire after market was set up for just that reason..... they knew the guys on the street would want what the racers have to put on their street motors .........they capitalized from the wannabes........
 

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
The entire after market was set up for just that reason..... they knew the guys on the street would want what the racers have to put on their street motors .........they capitalized from the wannabes........
I read about some of the builds on other forums for 348-409's and it sounds like an Arms war between Russia and the U.S. Everyone wants the biggest and most expensive to grab a bite to eat. 600hp dyno sheets for an engine that will never go above 4500rpm on the street. By god if they weren't so scared of 400hp they would hold their foot down and show you what 600hp looks like. :laugh2 What a waste in money and resources. That also just proves I'm poor and crazy.
 

Mr Goodwrench

Well Known Member
There aren't many parts that I see in the 348-409 world that get modified and gets me going but this takes the cake. :laugh2
Everyone knows there are only so many M/T Power rams made. :blah So everyone thinks they want one but few people know or understand them. There is a world of information on how they work and what problems you will have should you decide you want to run any kind of true cross ram set up. Read this facebook post yourself. https://www.facebook.com/groups/693902137432254/permalink/1851224328366690
The point here is: He is experimenting on a piece that he has no understanding of how it works to begin with, whether what he is attempting to do will work and clearly hasn't found anyone else with any knowledge of how to determine if what he is attempting to accomplish will work. :dunno2
FOR ANYONE THAT WANTS TO EXPERIMENT WITH ANY CROSS RAM INTAKE MODIFICATION!: If you don't have ready access to a flow bench that can measure the flow rate of both individual sides of a true CROSS Ram at the same time, then you cannot actually make a specific determination as to whether anything you have done or would like to do will make any difference. I don't care what kind of cross ram set up you are talking about the physical principles/theories of tuning anything is to have a base line then do some testing. Clearly the testing of individual sides of a cross ram set up is very difficult if not impossible. I don't know of anyone that has a flow bench that can handle individual runners at the same time but there might be one out there.
This boils down to the same problem with the LS guys that buy fake 409 valve covers for their LS engines. You want the look so you will do anything but accept the fact that an LS will never be a 348-409. To anyone that wants to have the look of a cross ram but doesn't accept the issues that come along with owning one, and aren't actually willing to learn how to tune them.... Leave them alone and make some fake plastic cover like the LS guys do so you can "have that look." :lmao
My money is his 6500rpm street engine will run worse because of the specific area he is pulling from. He has no idea whether there is a low/high pressure signal in the location he is attempting to use or what RPM he will make any gains or losses. This entire project is just playing because he can. :laugh2 View attachment 90013
Thought I might shed a little light here. The guy doing this has been a good friend of mine since the early 80,s and has had and run 409’s since the late 70’s. He has ran this intake and reversion was the problem, he took it off and put the engine and the intake in on the shelf to wait for better days. He built and a 2x4 tunnel ram big block and run that for about 25 years but the 409 bug bit him again. He’s currently building a stock stroke 409 with all the goodies and wants to give the cross ram another try. He’s working with a well known cylinder head porter who helped him develop some tapered bore spacers to try to bid something with shear? (Above my head) the guy used to be part owner of a high performance speed shop and built engines daily for a living, his craftsmanship and work is impeccably and I can tell you for certain this is not a hack job dreamed up by some LS puke! There has been a good deal of flow bench time and a lot of science involved in trying to improve this intake, hell that’s what hot ridding is all about! If it doesn’t work out he’ll hang it on the wall for a good conversation piece
 

La Hot Rods

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 7
I remember Hot Rod magazine did a test with one of the cross rams on a small block. They had a picture on the cover with it running under load on the dyno, the fuel was standing about 6 or 8 inches above both carburetors. They found that it took a lot of jet because the air fuel was suspended in the runner do to reversion.
 

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Thought I might shed a little light here. The guy doing this has been a good friend of mine since the early 80,s and has had and run 409’s since the late 70’s. He has ran this intake and reversion was the problem, he took it off and put the engine and the intake in on the shelf to wait for better days. He built and a 2x4 tunnel ram big block and run that for about 25 years but the 409 bug bit him again. He’s currently building a stock stroke 409 with all the goodies and wants to give the cross ram another try. He’s working with a well known cylinder head porter who helped him develop some tapered bore spacers to try to bid something with shear? (Above my head) the guy used to be part owner of a high performance speed shop and built engines daily for a living, his craftsmanship and work is impeccably and I can tell you for certain this is not a hack job dreamed up by some LS puke! There has been a good deal of flow bench time and a lot of science involved in trying to improve this intake, hell that’s what hot ridding is all about! If it doesn’t work out he’ll hang it on the wall for a good conversation piece
No one doubts Steve's knowledge or ability. If you follow his build clearly he is doing some great work. It was once said as soon as the last whale dies, they are gone and the unmolested M/T Power Rams are no different. I think we all agree that anyone can do anything they like with anything they own. I began this post after speaking to Steve several times about his build. The issue all along is not whether he knows what he is doing or whether he is a cool guy and working with other talented tradesmen. The issue brought forth is universal and not just about only these rare racing parts. M/T Power Rams may not work nearly as well as newer intakes but they were never meant to be cruised around to get a burger either. The best example is: If someone bought the 1963 Z11 Old Reliable and decided to make it a Monster truck to crush cars, you would get the same reaction I had when I first chatted with Steve about his Power Ram intake. So if no one here cares about watching a Z11 get turned into a monster truck to crush cars, then no one will care about a M/T Power Ram getting the same make over to do something it wasn't designed for. The "reversion argument" is an excuse to look the other way because the M/T Power Ram has always done what it was intended to do and that was to simply out perform what was available at the time. Anyone that has a problem with M/T Power Ram out performing an 881 should run "some LS puke". The LS is far superior design than a 348-409 but I accept the issues, problem and limitations of these old girls and love them for their issues. I know Steve struggled with the idea of cutting it up but again he can do what he likes with what he owns. Just makes the unmolested ones worth that much more.
 

Iowa 409 Guy

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 12
Thought I might shed a little light here. The guy doing this has been a good friend of mine since the early 80,s and has had and run 409’s since the late 70’s. He has ran this intake and reversion was the problem, he took it off and put the engine and the intake in on the shelf to wait for better days. He built and a 2x4 tunnel ram big block and run that for about 25 years but the 409 bug bit him again. He’s currently building a stock stroke 409 with all the goodies and wants to give the cross ram another try. He’s working with a well known cylinder head porter who helped him develop some tapered bore spacers to try to bid something with shear? (Above my head) the guy used to be part owner of a high performance speed shop and built engines daily for a living, his craftsmanship and work is impeccably and I can tell you for certain this is not a hack job dreamed up by some LS puke! There has been a good deal of flow bench time and a lot of science involved in trying to improve this intake, hell that’s what hot ridding is all about! If it doesn’t work out he’ll hang it on the wall for a good conversation piece
Good for him....:good:good They are his parts and he can damn well do whatever he wants to with them................I bet he'll enjoy doing this experimenting more than dusting them on his wall.
 

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
It’s the haves........ and the have nots......... Bill Gates has billions of dollars getting dusty.....! I don’t .......!........Look at the collection Don Fezell sold off......!!!
Bill and Melinda Gates have given $45.5 billion to charitable causes, including the eponymously named Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, since 1994, CNBC reported, citing the Chronicle of Philanthropy. In 2019, the couple donated $589 million to charity, making them the seventh most philanthropic people last year. As of Jun 11, 2020.
Still waiting for a few other rich folks to step up like Gates has. Even Bezo's ex-wife is giving half of her 45 billion away to charity. Some people understand they have to much money and can help good causes.
 

63 dream'n

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Bill and Melinda Gates have given $45.5 billion to charitable causes, including the eponymously named Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, since 1994, CNBC reported, citing the Chronicle of Philanthropy. In 2019, the couple donated $589 million to charity, making them the seventh most philanthropic people last year. As of Jun 11, 2020.
Still waiting for a few other rich folks to step up like Gates has. Even Bezo's ex-wife is giving half of her 45 billion away to charity. Some people understand they have to much money and can help good causes.
Wasn’t even close to the point........!:dunnohe’s still got alotta dusty $$$$$......
 
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1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Wasn’t even close to the point........!:dunnohe’s still got alotta dusty $$$$$......
I figure anyone with $20 is willing to give away $10 is doing more for the world than I am able. I can't blame them for holding onto their last $10 because there are MILLIONS of people who don't share a penny for any cause like Wristpin. :D
 
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