Very cool car 
. All the best at the T&T.
. All the best at the T&T.
It's alive again!
- Thread starter de31168
- Start date
Sounds great! Can't wait to hear what it runs. I think I remember seeing it in magazines when I was in high school in the 90's.
Love the ride height,can I ask how the suspension is set up.are u narrowed out back?,dropped spindles,cut coils....how large are the rear tires,wheels,thanks in advance.
de31168
Well Known Member
Sorry for the delay, just saw this. It has 2" drop spindles in the front and Moroso coil springs with about 1/4 coil cut off. The rear is a narrowed 9" rear end with 4 link suspension. The tires are Hoosier 29/9.0-15 drag slicks and i'm not sure on the wheels.
Looks good, sounds good ! Looks like fun !
Thanks for the reply, with the 4 link are you absent the rear seat, are you tubbed,mini?sorry for so many questions,I too have a 63 and would love to end up having a set up looking VERY similar to yours....thank you in advance
What was your 60'?
de31168
Well Known Member
Yes everything from the floor under the backseat back was completely gutted and fully tubbed and tinned.
A very pedestrian 1.64. It spun badly.
Here was the other run from the evening. 11.06 @ 123mph. The 60' on this was even worse. 1.68
Cool videos! The car looks and sounds great!
I'm no expert but if you have an adjustable four link I think raising the front of your lower bars one hole might help you hook a bit better. If you watch the second video closely, it looks like the back end of the car squats just a bit when you dump the clutch. (looking at the tire in the wheel well) Raising the front of the lower bars a bit will move your instant center up a bit which should cause the tires to plant themselves harder when you dump the clutch. At least that's the way it's supposed to work.
It's hard to get a good baseline suggestion for a four link because the best setting depends on how much power the car has, how heavy it is, wheelbase, standard or automatic etc. but they do say that setting the suspension so that the back end squats a bit is usually not the best way to go on a ten or eleven second car. I gather that you usually don't want squat, either a neutral setting or if anything a little bit of lift on the rear end is usually best.
The car looks and sounds great!I'm no expert but if you have an adjustable four link I think raising the front of your lower bars one hole might help you hook a bit better. If you watch the second video closely, it looks like the back end of the car squats just a bit when you dump the clutch. (looking at the tire in the wheel well) Raising the front of the lower bars a bit will move your instant center up a bit which should cause the tires to plant themselves harder when you dump the clutch. At least that's the way it's supposed to work.
It's hard to get a good baseline suggestion for a four link because the best setting depends on how much power the car has, how heavy it is, wheelbase, standard or automatic etc. but they do say that setting the suspension so that the back end squats a bit is usually not the best way to go on a ten or eleven second car. I gather that you usually don't want squat, either a neutral setting or if anything a little bit of lift on the rear end is usually best.
de31168
Well Known Member
Cool videos!
I'm no expert but if you have an adjustable four link I think raising the front of your lower bars one hole might help you hook a bit better. If you watch the second video closely, it looks like the back end of the car squats just a bit when you dump the clutch. (looking at the tire in the wheel well) Raising the front of the lower bars a bit will move your instant center up a bit which should cause the tires to plant themselves harder when you dump the clutch. At least that's the way it's supposed to work.
It's hard to get a good baseline suggestion for a four link because the best setting depends on how much power the car has, how heavy it is, wheelbase, standard or automatic etc. but they do say that setting the suspension so that the back end squats a bit is usually not the best way to go on a ten or eleven second car. I gather that you usually don't want squat, either a neutral setting or if anything a little bit of lift on the rear end is usually best.
Thank you! Interesting train of thought. I don't know if it was just the track not hooking or what. Here is a video still from the run against the 62. It looks like the rim is really close to the track planting the tire.
Also here are some other examples of that.
Is it maybe hitting TOO hard when it's squatting down?
It always seems to hook/unload/hook/unload. I always thought it was in the shock settings. In a perfect world it should lift like that and carry the wheels out, not yank them up and slam them back down again.
The car is porpoising. This will happen when the front and rear springs have a frequency that is close to each other. Imagine a teeter toter with a spring under each end. Just as weight is making one side fall, the compressed spring on the other end is pushing up. When the other side comes down, the process repeats itself and the energy keeps switching from end to end back and forth. The answer is to put lighter springs in one end of the car. Or stiffer. An instant center that is directly under the center of gravity can also produce the affect (or is it effect. I forget) or exaggerate the previous condition with the springs. Also, is the front of the car limited?? looks like it could use more travel. The car doesn't have enough hp to produce the desired weight transfer by sheer acceleration alone. It needs a little help. Also, run tubes if you don't have them already. Or better yet, a stiff sidewall tire. Unfortunately, nobody I am aware of makes them in a 9" tire.
Intuition would tell you that when the rear of the car dips down the car is really hooking but it's a bit more complicated than that. 
Lets say you had superhuman strength and could grab the car by the back bumper then lift it off the ground. Now pull the back tires and bring the body down to normal ride height with the axle not touching the ground. Now lets say you were standing on a scale holding everything steady,,, and the scale read 2,000 lbs. Now, if you were to suddenly raise the car a few inches the scale would read much higher than 2,000 lbs. for the split second that you were lifting the car. If on the other hand you were to lower the car suddenly, the scale would read much LESS than 2,000 lbs for the split second that the car was being lowered. Of course once you stopped lowering the car, all that weight that was on it's way down would push you down harder onto the scale and it would read much higher for a split second.
The only way for the body of the car to go up is if it's pushed up from below, which increases the weight of the rear tires on the pavement.
If the body of the car dips down, the weight on the tires is reduced. Of course, once the body stops dropping, all that falling weight will really crush the tires into the pavement but by that time it's often too late, the tires are already spinning and they want to keep on spinning.
It's usually better if the car doesn't drop, that way you keep the full 2000 lbs on the wheels during the launch. You can even go the other way and have the car lift on the back a little giving you more than 2,000 lbs on the back tires during the initial hit, but it's easy to overdo it because as soon as the back of the car stops going up, the weight on the tires will be reduced.
A fairly neutral setting that neither lifts or dips will also reduce the tendency for the car to bob and dip on each shift. I have also read the same thing Ishiftem mentioned about spring rates so that may be more of a factor in your case.
Here's a video of my car when it was running about 10.60's The four link is set fairly neautral and it gives a flat launch. It's actually a fairly boring launch. (automatic transmission) My 60' times at that time were typically in the 1.40 range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOS...9QtBw79A5ujcY94_JSoAOc010I89rt6gYyJJWj4M5I2Zk
Lets say you had superhuman strength and could grab the car by the back bumper then lift it off the ground. Now pull the back tires and bring the body down to normal ride height with the axle not touching the ground. Now lets say you were standing on a scale holding everything steady,,, and the scale read 2,000 lbs. Now, if you were to suddenly raise the car a few inches the scale would read much higher than 2,000 lbs. for the split second that you were lifting the car. If on the other hand you were to lower the car suddenly, the scale would read much LESS than 2,000 lbs for the split second that the car was being lowered. Of course once you stopped lowering the car, all that weight that was on it's way down would push you down harder onto the scale and it would read much higher for a split second.
The only way for the body of the car to go up is if it's pushed up from below, which increases the weight of the rear tires on the pavement.
If the body of the car dips down, the weight on the tires is reduced. Of course, once the body stops dropping, all that falling weight will really crush the tires into the pavement but by that time it's often too late, the tires are already spinning and they want to keep on spinning.
It's usually better if the car doesn't drop, that way you keep the full 2000 lbs on the wheels during the launch. You can even go the other way and have the car lift on the back a little giving you more than 2,000 lbs on the back tires during the initial hit, but it's easy to overdo it because as soon as the back of the car stops going up, the weight on the tires will be reduced.
A fairly neutral setting that neither lifts or dips will also reduce the tendency for the car to bob and dip on each shift. I have also read the same thing Ishiftem mentioned about spring rates so that may be more of a factor in your case.
Here's a video of my car when it was running about 10.60's The four link is set fairly neautral and it gives a flat launch. It's actually a fairly boring launch. (automatic transmission) My 60' times at that time were typically in the 1.40 range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOS...9QtBw79A5ujcY94_JSoAOc010I89rt6gYyJJWj4M5I2Zk
de31168
Well Known Member
I hear what the both of you are saying. It's a complex thought process isn't it? We actually just changed to stiffer rear springs in the back for the recommended rear weight and the Koni coilover shock tech support line. However the next time we go out we will experiment with different bar settings. What could it hurt to try? Thanks for the advice!
I think everyone is on the right track here with spring and suspension suggestions, but it looks to me like a slightly longer burn out may help too. At least from that last video in post #33. I watched the one with the '62 three times to see how the burnout was in it....but ended up paying more attention to the cars themselves and missed it each time. Finally gave up. LOL
I am almost sure I have issues of Super Chevy and one a Popular Hot Rodding from the 90's with that 4 door BBC 1962 Biscayne in it. If not, then one just like it except it still had a flat hood. If you talk to them, ask them if they were in the magazines. Also, invite them to come join us here on the 348-409 Forum. Take it from me, they welcome people with rat motors here too. I have been around this group for YEARS and didn't have a 409 until a few months back.
I am almost sure I have issues of Super Chevy and one a Popular Hot Rodding from the 90's with that 4 door BBC 1962 Biscayne in it. If not, then one just like it except it still had a flat hood. If you talk to them, ask them if they were in the magazines. Also, invite them to come join us here on the 348-409 Forum. Take it from me, they welcome people with rat motors here too. I have been around this group for YEARS and didn't have a 409 until a few months back.