Linkage

[scott hall]

Fellas I'm having a brain fart. Have 62 Impala with 4-speed Lakewood bellhousing and Centerforce clutch and throwout bearing. Had a cobbled up clutch linkage set up. worked but not all that good. Bought all new linkage from Show Cars. From rod on peddle to throwout fork. Now clutch doesn't disengage at all. Can't get any kind of adjustment. Was wondering if a long throwout bearing might be the answer. Are the pedals different from column shift to floor shift. Car was original sb 3 speed now 09 4 speed. Kinda at a loss. Don't really want to put home made linkage back in.

 

[Dick MacKenzie]

Scott,
I don't know about the throw out bearing but I believe the pedal assemblies were the same for all standard shift transmission. Show cars only shows one diagram for 62 & 63.

 

[scott hall]

Thanks Mr. Mackenzie we have the pictures and info. I'm not sure what I'm not sure about. Should have been a straight forward change, I thought.

 

[scott hall]

I will say that the clutch pedal rod is more straight than what the picture shows. All parts say they're the correct part numbers. Still at a loss.

 

[Jim Sullivan]

I have never seen a Lakewood bell housing, but maybe something to check is the fork pivot ball in the bell housing? I know that a stock pivot/ bell housing is not adjustable but I don't know about the Lakewood setup (since all of the other linkage is new).

 

[63 dream'n]

There have been several clutch issues brought up before and I know I've seen drawings of the various Z bar configurations there are.which would give you more or less throw to your pivot point.

 

[63 dream'n]

Show cars shows a sm.blk and a 409 Z bar......3 spd,???????the installed height of your pivot ball stud would also change your throw

 

[pvs409]

Here I think is your solution. I have a 62 SS 409 with a Lakewood bell housing, centerforce clutch, and all original linkage from the pedals to the cross shaft.
I did not use the lower stock push rod and pin in the top of the clutch fork. I used a treaded 61 lower rod with a adjustable pin and solid pin in the clutch fork. The treaded portion of the rod is to the rear of the car. My throughout bearing is the tall one. I do have 2" Jardine Headers. The clutch fork is one from Show Cars not the original 409 clutch fork -the original fork moves the pin location about 1" toward the front of the car. I needed this space at the end of the threaded rod to clear the headers.
If you need some measurements and/or part #'s for this rod and pins, which I recall came from Show Cars.
Paul
See the picture:

 

[pvs409]

One more thing the cross shaft is a reproduction show cars 409 cross shaft not a 327 cross shaft. One of the arms on the 409 cross shaft is a different length - longer I think.
Paul

 

[DonSSDD]

The 62 and 63 clutch pedals are different, that Show Cars drawing is wrong. The 63 pedal won't clear the signal light switch on the steering column on the 62.

I think what you have from the z bar to the tranny has to all be from the same year- you can't mix in a piece from another year, like rods and z bars, because the angles/geometry may be different. My 59 setup, all fit the 409 fine in the El Camino, clutch, pressure plate, clutch fork, bearing, flywheel, bell housing, z bar, all the rods, everything. But if you mixed in one other thing from a different year, who knows if it would fit.

What you have may work, if you lengthen the rod to the clutch fork, or change out the throwout bearing or the pivot in the Lakewood. Check with Lakewood to see which TB to use with the clutch you have?

Don

 

[scott hall]

Thanks for all the replies. I have set the pivot ball (adjustable) to what Centerforce calls for with the Lakewood bell. I did install the old fork push rod which is 12 3/4 long and threaded. Still didn't disengage clutch all the way. Does anyone know or have a pic of the angle of the upper part of the Z-bar at pedal rod. As in is it straight up, tilted forward or back any. Am gonna pick up a long bearing tomorrow and maybe try it if I can't find something else. Wrong parts in correct bags etc. Just seems there is not enough throw. Pedal rod at Z-bar on this is set forward of center with the showcars correct lower rod. Thanks Again. If someone knows the angle where the clutch rod goes to Z-bar that will help a lot. Thanks Scott

 

[oldskydog]

The long bearing goes with the diaphragm clutch and the short goes with the finger (Borg and Beck) clutch as I recall.
There is another potential problem with hanging the throwout bearing incorrectly on the fork that has caused some problems. Some have tried to clip the lip of the bearing under the spring clips instead of just slipping it into the fork.

 

[BubbletopMan]

Scott, I made my factory bottom rod on my '62 adjustable by cutting it in the middle and threading both halves and used a threaded hex sleeve with stop nuts on each end. So I have adjustment on top and bottom. The location of my top arm on the Z-bar would be irrelevant as I can pretty much put it wherever I want via the adjustability of the bottom rod. I do have a short throwout bearing in a Lakewood bellhousing with a STOCK pivot ball and a McLeod 12" diaphragm style clutch. Operates smoothly and releases cleanly. Recently, I've started making bottom rods for folks out of a strong ALCOA aluminum tube stock with heims at both ends. It does take a little bit of modification on the Z-bar and clutch fork and is not at all stock appearing, but it is great for an extra measure of adjustability. Paul, from the looks of your headers, you have to run a stubby oil filter like I do with my Hooker's!

Jeremy

 

[chevymusclecars]

I also made an adjustable rod for mine and use an old shift rod which is hard material and not likely to bend like all thread. For the adjustable part I used a swivel like the one shown on top of the Z bar where the rod from the pedal connects, these can also be found on some of the old shift rods. If you have the correct throw out bearing you will only have about an inch of travel at the most when the rod is disconnected from the fork.

Bill

 

[scott hall]

Well changed to a long throw out bearing. It works and drives ok just don't like that the clutch starts to engage about 2 inches or less from the floor. Would like to get it higher. Have checked z-bar for the proper length of arms and the 150 degree difference in arms. It just seems like it doesn't have enough throw or travel. Right now I'm using all new stuff from Show-Cars. Don't see a reason to run longer lower rod since seems travel wouldn't change. Am I thinking wrong? Clutch pedal is on rubber stop under dash guess I could take it out but then pedal is higher than brake pedal. But I'm not against doing it. Again thanks for all your help fellas. See you all soon in Great Bend I hope. Thanks Scott Hall

 

[pvs409]

As I said above the majority of my linkage is the same as yours. I have the same clutch and pressure plate. I have the longer throughout bearing.
My upper arm on my cross shaft is 3 3/8" long and is 409 only (I have a damaged original to compare it to).
My lower threaded rod is 11 3/4" long with 1" left for adjustment on threaded end.

Your said your cars was a factory 3 speed: so the clutch pedal, crosshaft mount on the frame and the rod through the firewall are all original and the same on 4 speed cars, so they will be just like my original linkage setup with a Lakewood. As I said above the only difference can be the cross shaft and the lower threaded arm - or maybe the clutch fork, now that your throughout bearing is changed.

This is the type of lower rod that I have with a 62 409 cross shaft. This one is 1" longer than mine. I think mine might be off a 57 chevy - I think its NOS GM threaded rod.
http://www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=5604

Paul

 

[scott hall]

Thank you Paul that rod is the one we took out. I will try putting it in again to see if it helps.

 

[Gus68]

Soooo...... Where is your "adjustment"? Is it in the rod that goes from the pedal to the Z bar? Or is it in the lower rod, Z bar to clutch fork? I guess it doesn't realy matter, I prefer the lower one, but sounds like you need to lengthen them to get the throwout bearing to go in deeper and have a little less free play. Think of it like this, you have a book on a table, you can only push that book as far as your arm is long, lets say 3ft. (just guessing) now lets give you a 1 ft long stick, now you can push the book farther but your arm still moved the same distance. You NEED to adjust your rod LONGER!!!!! There is no "spec" just until it works correctly! Now go get dirty.

 

[roger gunter]

yep that's what I said
I NEED A LONGER ROD