Macs 348 Build!

MacsW33

Active Member
Changed the Title to a Build since thats what it is turning into. I am on the hunt for a crank. Found a guy kind of local (within a few hours) that said he bought out a 409 race team many many years ago and still has some stuff laying around. I am trying to arrange a visit with him this weekend! He said he has several cranks some that supposedly are stroker. He said he does not know how to tell what cranks are strokers or not. I don't either!?!?!? I also dont know how to id cranks as 348/409??? Maybe casting numbers on the crank?
 

chuckl

Well Known Member
Don Jacks has given W cam advice on at least 4-500 occasions (correct me on this if I am low) and I have never seen a complaint. :appl
Prolly close to 600! I have a 61 348, .30 over Tri-power, with large-valve, ported 333 heads. The 0950 cam, recommended by Don, is the perfect cam for my application. The engine has great torque, good idle and quick accel response from,1,000 to 5,500 turns. Am happy with that cam! Chuck
 

fourzeronine

Well Known Member
...He said he does not know how to tell what cranks are strokers or not...

He would need to measure the centerline distance between the rod journal and the main journal.

In order to determine if its an unmodified BBC crank or been machined for use in a W-engine, he'd need to measure the main journal and snout diameters. The BBC uses larger diameters. Machining a BBC crank was a common way to create a large displacement stroker before aftermarket W-engine cranks became readily available during the last decade.

I also dont know how to id cranks as 348/409??? Maybe casting numbers on the crank?

The 348 cranks have a circular flywheel flange. The 409 cranks have a more oblong, non-circular flange.
 

MacsW33

Active Member
Just a update. I have not made any progress on the 348 yet. I just been driving it. On the warmer days it has been running a little on the warm side 210 ish. The 33 is using a old 40 Ford rad that could probably use a good flush and Inspection by the rad shop. Any thoughts on those edelbrock pumps?

I have back pedal some on the build. I am just going to do a cam swap do the smaller show cars cam lifter springs. Harden push rods and the roller tip rockers. Reason for the push back is since I have not turned up a 409 crank yet I am going to run Chrysler hemi for my 32 through the machine shop first. Also with the heat issue more compression right now might not be a good idea. So let’s see how this little cam goes. Stay tuned.
 

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
Yeah right! By the time you buy the steel 454 crank,pay to have the necessary machine work to it,you're going to have as much if not more in it than a new stroker crank would be.Then you have to consider balancing.In order to get a 454 crank to neutral balance you'll have to spend a ton of money for Mallory metal.Extrenally balanced cranks limit your balancer choices,flexplate or flywheel choices and are more breakage prone. IMO,Penny wise,pound foolish.
 

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Yeah right! By the time you buy the steel 454 crank,pay to have the necessary machine work to it,you're going to have as much if not more in it than a new stroker crank would be.Then you have to consider balancing.In order to get a 454 crank to neutral balance you'll have to spend a ton of money for Mallory metal.Extrenally balanced cranks limit your balancer choices,flexplate or flywheel choices and are more breakage prone. IMO,Penny wise,pound foolish.
So raise your hand if anyone here has ever "planned a build" and completely changed their mind later to run a manual/auto transmission? I see a couple hands in the air out of thousands. If you build your motor first and have no plan for which kind of transmission you would use (Your balancing the crank issue), then: #1 You are a poor planner and will be forced to spend more money to make up for your lack of understanding of what it is you trying to accomplish. #2 If you can't find a core crank for less than $100 then you don't have access to craigslist, Ebay, Searchtempest and thousands of machine shops that toss 454 cranks in a pile. Everyone I know around me tosses them for stroker cranks to build bigger motors. I pay core price ($50 for my last forged one) and had that one turned for $300. Now if you can find me a forged, balanced, 4" stroke crank that will drop in to my 348/409 for less than $400 then I have cash in hand and will buy as many as you can supply me.
Everyone please remember that not every guy that comes to this website for information is building a groud pounding 800hp motor. He can't find a 409 crank because he decided that is what he wants. But A standard 454 crank would work fine up to around 550hp all day without it being forged and fewer people on here have that kind of power versus those who actually have dyno slips that state they do. We must all help everyone young, old and with or without knowledge of motors that there are always other options to spending a bunch of money. I now have a dozen cranks in my shop because they are cheap and work well when machined for these motors. When you can buy pistons and bb rods that specifically fit this application right off the shelf then it only makes sense to me. Anyone who believes that it costs less to buy a kit than creating what you want hasn't spent enough time at their local machine shop and asked the guys that build them every day. I personally know this because I went to my local shop and asked questions like "How can I do this cheaply?".
This long paragraph isn't about me being right. This is about ensuring we don't turn people off to these motors because of how incredibly expensive a forged rotating assemble from Eagle, Scat... can be. Everyone here can spread their money out over several months buying specific parts needed for creating their own kit and save money. Building 348/409's does cost a little more than building other SBC and BBC motors but the end result is hard to beat. I wish I were bringing my 434 build up to Tri-state raceway to show what a cheap forged stroker can do but the wagon already has one of my little 348's in it.
 

Tom Kochtanek

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 12
I just tuned in to this conversation. If you're still looking for a stock 409 crank, I've got one I can spare if you're interested.

I hate boxing and shipping stuff 'cause they charge soooo much, but can do that. I would have to locate a box and some foam padding from a local machine shop. Where are you located? I'm in 65203.

Cheers! TomK
 

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Is that just for machining the mains, front seal, and damper snout down to size, or also reducing the counterweight OD and then balancing to account for that reduction?
That was with all of the above. I was shocked as to how cheap it was but when you think about it, its only machine work. The old timer that did my crank was handed a 348 crank and a 454 crank and I said make that look like that and he said shouldn't be hard. 2 days later I picked them up and he said pretty easy to make it work. I found a print out (somewhere on here) of some information that he studied on the finer points of a 348/409 crank so that he knew about the special edges for the thrust bearing (if I remember correctly) I'll have to get that paper back out. After getting it done I can't ever imagine buying a crank from someone else when I can get a quality product made myself.
 

427John

Well Known Member
That was with all of the above. I was shocked as to how cheap it was but when you think about it, its only machine work. The old timer that did my crank was handed a 348 crank and a 454 crank and I said make that look like that and he said shouldn't be hard. 2 days later I picked them up and he said pretty easy to make it work. I found a print out (somewhere on here) of some information that he studied on the finer points of a 348/409 crank so that he knew about the special edges for the thrust bearing (if I remember correctly) I'll have to get that paper back out. After getting it done I can't ever imagine buying a crank from someone else when I can get a quality product made myself.
Can you elaborate on the the thrust bearing edges are you talking about the radius or something else?I'm getting a crank done and want to make sure I don't miss anything.
 

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Can you elaborate on the the thrust bearing edges are you talking about the radius or something else?I'm getting a crank done and want to make sure I don't miss anything.
Ill get the stack of papers out if I can find them. I would just say to begin with, its important to me that my builders have the crank bearings on hand to know they are doing it right. I believe when a stroker crank is turned down that the journals might leave a sharp 90 degree edge that will need additional machining. A step that they would need to know about and having the bearings on hand would ensure they don't miss that detail.
 

MacsW33

Active Member
It is time for a update.. not much to report over the summer because i was just enjoying driving the car. As enjoyable at the car is... it is disappointing in the wide open throttle department! I had full intentions to build this motor into a 380 but i found a complete fresh 348 at decent price with good parts. So now I have 2 348s :D.
The new 348 is a single notch X truck block. 348 crank 348 rods 11.25 ross pistons. heads are 333 that have been upgraded with bigger valves, screw in studs and full roller rockers.
Now to the cam this is where it gets interesting with a WTF was he thinking. It is a ISKY Solid Roller show cars part 0934 620 lift 248 @ .050 with 110 lsa. The cam in my opinion is way too big for the 348. So my plan is to go to a better street cam.
I am building my other 348 into a 440 stroker (for a different car) and I think the solid isky would be perfect for it. So the cam will have a good home in the 440.
Now back to the new 348 i am thinking on keeping things simple and just putting a hyd or mech tappet in it.. Looking at the 0953 cam 224/230 at .050 MAYBE? Goal is to have a fairly aggressive sounding streetable cam in a tri-power 348
So stay tuned much to come.
I will be adding pics as I go also.
Thanks,
Mac
 
Last edited:
Top