re·dux
rēˈdəks,ˈrēˈdəks/
adjective: redux
Manshed redux
Some of you might remember wayyyy back when I started a project to build a “manshed” on my 5 acres that I put a street in and developed with 28 building lots (circa 2005). I set aside a double lot near the front of the subdivision, the crappiest lot of them all (as it’s nearest the road) but the best for a manshed (easy access, had multi-level and subterranean potential, etc.). Got a building permit and laid out the foundation, even poured the ten foot walls after roughing in the plumbing and sewer. Then the financial markets went south in 2008 (remember that?) and it was a challenge to get funding for a while. So the project came to a halt and I spent all the set aside monies paying interest on a huge development loan for 3-4 years. At least I didn’t go bankrupt like some of my counterparts in town…
Fast forward six years and I got back to building and finished 18 new buildings and got out from under those lots. I still own the buildings and the lots, but tenants now pay my multiple mortgages. Sure I owe a ton of dollars to various banks, but things have settled a bit and the tide is turning. Now banks want to lend me money again. Imagine that!
I am currently packaging 12 buildings together in a refinance with a new banking partner, and just for kicks I threw in an extra line item to finish the “manshed”. My banker asked for more details (always a good sign) and a budget, which I provided. Even I was a bit surprised at how materials pricing and labor costs have risen. I currently have about $85K into the cost of the lot, the excavation, the utilities and the 40’ by 60’ foundation wall (with ten foot ceilings in the lower basement area). That sounds like a lot to me, but there it is.
The remaining cost of the build will depend on whether I pour a suspended concrete first floor (for cars) or I use engineered “I” beams (for people). Suspended concrete is looking real expensive at this point, since code requires an engineering study for the specific design. When calling around I was told to expect a fee of $5K to $8K for an engineered structural design. I might just suspend part of the first floor (for a 2 car garage space) and stick build the rest (for humans to walk) to save dollars. The bank has asked me to consider putting a rental unit on the first floor and that would be doable, as I could simply stick build it. It’s at street level with a 40’ by 46” footprint. Adding a 29th rental building complicates things, as it is a Planned Unit Development and by code requires City Council approval to make changes to the subdivision plat. That will take about three months and will require an engineering fee as well as bureaucratic hoops to jump through. My civil engineer tells me that this should go through unopposed, but I’m still burned by what neighbors claimed in an open forum when I first proposed the subdivision (I have thin skin and a long memory).
So much of this past month I have been preparing the 40’ by 60’ footprint for possible new construction. Had to show the space to my banker and since it was all filled up with car parts and cars, I thought it would present better if I moved everything out. I left a small 18’ by 21’ carport and a 40 foot storage container and moved everything else up the hill onto a vacant lot (yes, I still have two vacant building lots!). Not real pretty, but I put a temporary fence around it so the neighbors wouldn’t complain. Now I have two unfinished projects, as the stuff will eventually have to be moved back down once the building goes up (assuming that happens). It's a bit of a shell game right now, moving stuff around only to have to move it all back at some point. Not the first time I’ve ever done that…
Here is a current pic of the lower basement level inside the 40” by 60” foundation:
Here is a pic of the stuff I had to move to clear the space out:
So now I have something to do over the winter months, plan the building. I have an initial rendering from my original architect, it’s pretty expensive to complete but would keep in line with the high quality of buildings that we have already constructed. And it will look more like a house than a storage unit. The exterior will be cementious fiber board (Hardie plank) the roof line will be stick built, the shingles will be architectural, it will have lots of windows and some hand laid stone around the lower sections, all to blend in with existing construction.
There will be 2400 square feet in the basement level (ten foot ceilings) with one 14’ by 40’ section having a 16 foot ceiling so I can put in a lift. The first floor will be 1840 square feet (40’ by 46’) and that will either be a suspended concrete floor (expensive) or some combination of engineered flooring with a possible section of a suspended concrete floor (less expensive). The budget to finish the project is in the “cost of a Z-11” range
.
I have experience in new construction, but it’s mostly stick built homes. No previous experience with suspended concrete. I do know that one must have plans drawn up by a registered engineer for the suspended concrete ceiling. Placement of load and the footers are critical. Also, rebar would be the 5/8” variety spaced at 8 inch intervals. That’s a lot of rebar! Concrete could be as much as 8 inches. I need to do the math for the extra cost of a suspended concrete ceiling to see if that is feasible.
Any experience out there with suspended concrete floors? I have a good concrete man and a competent engineer, but I’m the one who has to live with the finished product and I want to do this right the first time. Any insights are most welcome.
Cheers!
TomK
rēˈdəks,ˈrēˈdəks/
adjective: redux
- brought back; revived.
Manshed redux
Some of you might remember wayyyy back when I started a project to build a “manshed” on my 5 acres that I put a street in and developed with 28 building lots (circa 2005). I set aside a double lot near the front of the subdivision, the crappiest lot of them all (as it’s nearest the road) but the best for a manshed (easy access, had multi-level and subterranean potential, etc.). Got a building permit and laid out the foundation, even poured the ten foot walls after roughing in the plumbing and sewer. Then the financial markets went south in 2008 (remember that?) and it was a challenge to get funding for a while. So the project came to a halt and I spent all the set aside monies paying interest on a huge development loan for 3-4 years. At least I didn’t go bankrupt like some of my counterparts in town…
Fast forward six years and I got back to building and finished 18 new buildings and got out from under those lots. I still own the buildings and the lots, but tenants now pay my multiple mortgages. Sure I owe a ton of dollars to various banks, but things have settled a bit and the tide is turning. Now banks want to lend me money again. Imagine that!
I am currently packaging 12 buildings together in a refinance with a new banking partner, and just for kicks I threw in an extra line item to finish the “manshed”. My banker asked for more details (always a good sign) and a budget, which I provided. Even I was a bit surprised at how materials pricing and labor costs have risen. I currently have about $85K into the cost of the lot, the excavation, the utilities and the 40’ by 60’ foundation wall (with ten foot ceilings in the lower basement area). That sounds like a lot to me, but there it is.
The remaining cost of the build will depend on whether I pour a suspended concrete first floor (for cars) or I use engineered “I” beams (for people). Suspended concrete is looking real expensive at this point, since code requires an engineering study for the specific design. When calling around I was told to expect a fee of $5K to $8K for an engineered structural design. I might just suspend part of the first floor (for a 2 car garage space) and stick build the rest (for humans to walk) to save dollars. The bank has asked me to consider putting a rental unit on the first floor and that would be doable, as I could simply stick build it. It’s at street level with a 40’ by 46” footprint. Adding a 29th rental building complicates things, as it is a Planned Unit Development and by code requires City Council approval to make changes to the subdivision plat. That will take about three months and will require an engineering fee as well as bureaucratic hoops to jump through. My civil engineer tells me that this should go through unopposed, but I’m still burned by what neighbors claimed in an open forum when I first proposed the subdivision (I have thin skin and a long memory).
So much of this past month I have been preparing the 40’ by 60’ footprint for possible new construction. Had to show the space to my banker and since it was all filled up with car parts and cars, I thought it would present better if I moved everything out. I left a small 18’ by 21’ carport and a 40 foot storage container and moved everything else up the hill onto a vacant lot (yes, I still have two vacant building lots!). Not real pretty, but I put a temporary fence around it so the neighbors wouldn’t complain. Now I have two unfinished projects, as the stuff will eventually have to be moved back down once the building goes up (assuming that happens). It's a bit of a shell game right now, moving stuff around only to have to move it all back at some point. Not the first time I’ve ever done that…
Here is a current pic of the lower basement level inside the 40” by 60” foundation:
Here is a pic of the stuff I had to move to clear the space out:
So now I have something to do over the winter months, plan the building. I have an initial rendering from my original architect, it’s pretty expensive to complete but would keep in line with the high quality of buildings that we have already constructed. And it will look more like a house than a storage unit. The exterior will be cementious fiber board (Hardie plank) the roof line will be stick built, the shingles will be architectural, it will have lots of windows and some hand laid stone around the lower sections, all to blend in with existing construction.
There will be 2400 square feet in the basement level (ten foot ceilings) with one 14’ by 40’ section having a 16 foot ceiling so I can put in a lift. The first floor will be 1840 square feet (40’ by 46’) and that will either be a suspended concrete floor (expensive) or some combination of engineered flooring with a possible section of a suspended concrete floor (less expensive). The budget to finish the project is in the “cost of a Z-11” range
.I have experience in new construction, but it’s mostly stick built homes. No previous experience with suspended concrete. I do know that one must have plans drawn up by a registered engineer for the suspended concrete ceiling. Placement of load and the footers are critical. Also, rebar would be the 5/8” variety spaced at 8 inch intervals. That’s a lot of rebar! Concrete could be as much as 8 inches. I need to do the math for the extra cost of a suspended concrete ceiling to see if that is feasible.
Any experience out there with suspended concrete floors? I have a good concrete man and a competent engineer, but I’m the one who has to live with the finished product and I want to do this right the first time. Any insights are most welcome.
Cheers!
TomK
.
