Motor Mounts

[art38]

Thought I would ask this question before I measure it myself.

Are the engine mounting bolt pattern (three holes on each side) on my 409 block in the same location as they are on a SBC? I guess what I'm asking is if I'm removing a SBC will the 409 fit the same mounts on my frame?
Art

 

[348NUT]

YES.

Good old Chevy pulled through on this one. Just like their Bellhousings and starter mounts.

 

[art38]

Thanks a bunch, 348NUT. So just build the motor and the rest should easy, right.

 

[348NUT]

Better make sure your credit card is tuned up before you tear into that engine! : Good luck! NUT

one thing to keep in mind if you put this in your 38; The heads and exhaust manifolds are almost 1 1/2"wider on each side than the small block and the engine is longer from the motor mounts forward to the fan mounting hub 1 1/2".

 

[art38]

Thanks. I have almost 4" from my radiator to the water pump pulley. Using a push type electric fan outside the radiator. I think I have space on the two sides. I might not have room for headers, but..... I guess I'll need a different flex plate and starter too?

 

[tripowerguy]

If your flexplate is a 168 tooth then it will work. Just make sure that the hole that fits on the end of the crank is big enough. Some W engine cranks fit tight. Also if your starter motor is stagger mount then it will work. If you buy a new starter and you have a friend in the boat business, buy a marine starter for an OMC chev. V/8. It will really wing it over and you have a mini starter to boot. Roy

 

[348NUT]

It worked for me.

I used a 700r4 from a 85 Impala, a flex plate and starter from a 86 Chevy p.u. Just bolted it all together with no shims and works great! Just like working on any smallblock I 've ever pieced together. Good luck, NUT

 

[art38]

Thanks guys for all the help. I'm using a 700r4 also. You all will be hearing a lot more from me as I go through the build up of this motor. I really think this motor will be gorgeous in my black coupe. I'm still trying to get the pistons out of the block. I'm trying to be very careful not to damage the block or crank, but man they just will not budge.

 

[348NUT]

been there. done that!

We've talked about this in the past. Usually two pistons are real bad because two intake valves were open. I fought with a froze-up 348 and finally after getting six pistons out and the crank out; a hardwood two by four and a sledge hammer got the others out after soaking. Do a search on this site for that type of thread. Some have drilled holes in the pistons, etc. NUT

 

[Rockfish39]

Been there, Done that too !!!

NUT is right... Thats what Ive had to do in the past...

Give up on the pistons, as they are gonners anyways...Use a good quality penetrating oil on the cylinder walls and flip the block upside down... You need to do this on the ground and on plywood, as you are taking a risk doing this proceedure on an engine stand...

REMOVE THE CRANK FIRST!!!! Believe it or not, you can seperate all of the connecting rods from it, take the main bearing caps off and remove the crankshaft. You need the crank and dont want to hurt it more than it may already maybe...

2) Get a BIG BRASS BAR similar to a punch, but not pointed on one end... Get yourself a BFH (Big Friggin' Hammer) Place one end of that bar onto the piston itself directly below the pin give a couple of good smacks, (IE driving the piston UP towards TDC) move the BRASS BAR to the opposite side of the piston...give the hammer a few more smacks... If all else fails, get a bigger hammer...

What this does is rocks the piston back and forth as you DRIVE it out of it's bore... You end up beating the hell out of the piston but not its pin, and no damage will be done to the connecting rod...

Your block will need a rebore anyways so dont worry too much about what the rings are doing to the walls. Just be sure to use a BRASS BAR , because if you slip you dont want to strike the cylinder wall with a hard metal like steel...

Rockfish

 

[art38]

So you say I can remove the crank without removing any pistons? I didn't think I could get the crank out without moving some pistons. Your right, I don't care about the pistons just the crank, rods and block. I'll try this approach tonight.
Thanks

 

[348NUT]

You can't remove the crank without moving some pistons. Y ou will not move ANY pistons unless you unbolt the rods from the crank so each can move up the cyl. bore seperately. Then you should find that some are stuck harder than others(hopefully) Put fuel line or rubber covers over the rod bolts to protect the crank and use rocks method to tap out the easy pistons first one at a time. Hopefully you can get the crank out before you get to the real tight pistons! NUT

 

[truck409]

Boy do I know about trying to get pistons out of a w engine.I bought a truck 409 a year ago and am still soaking and beating on the pistons in that one!And 348 NUT is right,your not going to get the crank out without moving pistons,at least I haven't been able to yet and I'm using a pretty big hammer! Lots of luck on your engine. PDP

 

[DALE SNYDER]

LOSENING PISTONS

I HAVE A 348 THAT HAD SET SINCE 1985. TRIED BRAKE FLUID ,W.D. 40, TRANSMISSION FLUID, BUT WHAT FINALLY DID THE TRICK WAS P.B. BLASTER,SPRAYED A GENEROUS AMOUNT IN CYLINDERS LET SET OVERNIGHT , AND IT FINALLY BROKE LOOSE.....HOPE THIS HELPS............... DALE

 

[art38]

I'm still beating the heck out of it. Finally punched through one piston, but haven.t broke any loose. I certainly don't want to spend a year doing this. I'll try Dale's idea. I'll be in touch.

 

[tripowerguy]

Have you taken any loose from the crank to see any are loose? Someone on another thread a long time ago had the same problem and used a torch to melt the piston since it is aluminum. I want you to know that I have not ever done this but it is an idea. Roy

 

[art38]

The caps are off the crank and rods except for one. Cannot get to the one rod bolt nut, otherwise it's all apart. Haven't given up. I really want to make this happen.

 

[Gerry]

Stuck Piston(s).

Art38, Several years ago I was disassembling an 09 short block and had the same problem you experienced. After trying all the soaking/penetrating oils, heating with a torch, pounding the daylights out the piston, without any success, I decided to cut a hole in the top of the piston with a hole saw to give the sides a place to move. To my surprise this worked. I think it was a 3" or 3 1/2" hole saw.

 

[Rockfish39]

any progress??

Hey Art,
Just checking in to see how things are going...WOW, you sure are having alot of trouble with that dude... Perhaps loading it into the back of a pickup and taking it to a competent machine shop would not be a bad idea at this point... Im sure that you want to minimize any damage...

 

[art38]

Rock,
I've gotten 6 out over the weekend, (1) in one piece, these others all broke apart, but that alright. So two left and I"m going to work on those here tonight. It's been pretty cold here in Colorado the past couple nights (-3), so working in a unheated garage has not been fun. Got the crank out too. Sorry, haven't had time give status on this task the last couple of days. Hope to take it in later this week to have the block and crank checked out. Then the fun begins.