need help deciding

[Ridge Overholt]

So I just purchased a 59 el camino. Orginaily a 283 Powerglide. I want to put a 409 with a Muncie four speed. the trouble I am finding is what 409 should I purchase. I have a nice sized budget but a rebuilt 409 is out of the question (not spending 16,000 on a engine). So I was wondering what engine should I go with. Do the truck 409's have more tourqe to help move that hudge car. Or would the car 409 400hp have enough tourqe to get it off the line. I'm new to the 409 and 348's so any information would be very helpful. Thanks.

 

[models916]

A hot rod 348 or any of the 409s will move that truck along. The truck 409 can be made to perform with a cam and piston change. Give us a shout when you are looking at something and we'll tell you what it needs to perform. There is only a couple of early 348 truck engines to stay away from.

 

[SSpev]

348 or 409 ..... truck or car will work if you build it to do the job. Budget... 348 with 409 crank, truck heads, proper pistons.

 

[Don Jacks]

Welcome to the site.If you don't mind my asking,what are your performance goals,and how much are you planning to spend on the engine? These engines,while unbeatable in the "cool" or "neat" factor,arent too cheap to buy and have properly built.As Tom said,a 348 with a 409 crank[380 cu.in. on a .030 overbore] can be built to perform really well.

 

[61 Bubble]

Welcome. Plenty of helpful people and info here.

 

[Ridge Overholt]

Welcome to the site.If you don't mind my asking,what are your performance goals,and how much are you planning to spend on the engine? These engines,while unbeatable in the "cool" or "neat" factor,arent too cheap to buy and have properly built.As Tom said,a 348 with a 409 crank[380 cu.in. on a .030 overbore] can be built to perform really well.

well as I said I am new to the "w" engines so I don't really know what's reasonable. I would like to get at minimum a 14 second car(let me know if that is unreasonable). Though with that being said I am 15 and the major improvements to a 409 might make my mom a little
suspicious. My budget for a 409 I will spend anywhere up to 10k and down depending on what its missing and what condition its in. and for a 348 I will spend up to 3 grand based on the same criteria. I will have much more money to put into a 348 but I would much rather prefer a 409.
I found a 1965 truck 409 engine. From what I've read I am pretty sure that the engine is a 409-340hp. So I'm wondering what it would take to improve that engine, if
you can. And if you can what all is involved.

 

[303Radar]

Two things to keep in mind with the '59 El Camino.
1 - It isn't too heavy at 3600 or so pounds as dry weight, even with the W engine
2 - It has a very good weight distribution
3 - You couldn't have a found a much cooler car
4 - I can't count

Regarding the 348, it's a good engine. I'm rebuilding the stock 348 which came with my '59 El Camino. You should be able to get a lot of reliable power out of the 348 with some moderate upgrades and the knowledge base which is here. Enough to get a mid 14 second quarter mile anyway.

Good luck, use the search feature and ask away!

 

[Don Jacks]

That truck engine would be a great place to start.It is rated at around 230 hp.The first,and most important thing will be to find a COMPETENT machine shop,one that's familure with these engines.There are a number of things that are "W" specific[this aint no smallblock] that must be properly addressed.Figure about a grand for cleaning,boring,decking,line honing, balancing,and head work.The 333 heads that come on that engine will be an excellant starting point,but will need porting work and larger valves installed.You'll need new forged pistons,and new big block replacement rods[I prefer The Scat 6.385 length rod],a good intake[Edelbrock Performer RPM, single 4 bbl for budget purposes. A 750 Holley type carb,new ignition system and a good set of headers.There are a few choices on cams out there,so we can help you get that 4000 lb. truck into the 13's,and still be streetable.Be sure to budget money for suspenson work,and driveline work such as ddriveshafts,rear gears and posi.unit.

 

[409newby]

A 65 409 truck is rated at 252 hp but can be made to put out much more, only takes money !

 

[SSpev]

well as I said I am new to the "w" engines so I don't really know what's reasonable. I would like to get at minimum a 14 second car(let me know if that is unreasonable). Though with that being said I am 15 and the major improvements to a 409 might make my mom a little
suspicious. My budget for a 409 I will spend anywhere up to 10k and down depending on what its missing and what condition its in. and for a 348 I will spend up to 3 grand based on the same criteria. I will have much more money to put into a 348 but I would much rather prefer a 409.
I found a 1965 truck 409 engine. From what I've read I am pretty sure that the engine is a 409-340hp. So I'm wondering what it would take to improve that engine, if
you can. And if you can what all is involved.

14s can be done with 348 and car heads.
truck 409 oh yea, no problem. I got one for $500

 

[Fathead Racing]

My 348 with three two's was a solid mid 14 sec. Car. Changing to a 409 bottom end with the three two's and using the same 348 heads it ran 13.50!

 

[61 Bubble]

I would have to agree. 348 is a cool budget oriented deal that will get you into the 14's, or even the 13's with a 380. 409 stuff is pricey and should get you into the 13's. Also 409 was NOT even available in 1959 yet the 348 was, so you could have some authenticity to the build. BUT if you do look at a 409 block, you might as well go the 474 stroker route. But that might put you over the budget.

Sorry I gotta say it. Even though I have never met either Aubrey Bruneau or Bob Walla, but do talk to both from time to time. I do recommend there products over other due to the fact they FLAT OUT WORK and there not a huge company yet there going after this niece market. So IF your going to get into an aluminium intake, CALL AUBREY. Needing a NEW block or heads, call Bob. These guys seem to be a stand-up guys and have help numerous people here. That goes towards there CHARACTER.

 

[Rickys61]

well as I said I am new to the "w" engines so I don't really know what's reasonable. I would like to get at minimum a 14 second car(let me know if that is unreasonable). Though with that being said I am 15 and the major improvements to a 409 might make my mom a little
suspicious. My budget for a 409 I will spend anywhere up to 10k and down depending on what its missing and what condition its in. and for a 348 I will spend up to 3 grand based on the same criteria. I will have much more money to put into a 348 but I would much rather prefer a 409.
I found a 1965 truck 409 engine. From what I've read I am pretty sure that the engine is a 409-340hp. So I'm wondering what it would take to improve that engine, if
you can. And if you can what all is involved.

Welcome to the site... It's really cool that you are only 15 and choosing a 348 or 409 for your already cool '59 El Camino.. One thing to consider, it's going to cost you about the same to build either a 348 or 409 once you have your core parts... (Block,heads, crank, etc..) if you can get a good rebuildible 409 core, you'll be way ahead of the game.. Good luck.
Rick

 

[poison ivy]

14 seconds can be had,put a four speed in first, gear it, then mod the 283 and show them how it cruises. look around for the parts for a 348 or 409.switch when ready..keep it running until the switch.

 

[1961BelAir427]

Welcome and congratulations on choosing a great car and wanting an awesome W engine for it!!! So nice to read instead of you wanting something with Vtech.

All great solid advice above, but I can't help but like Poison Ivy's last advice the most. Keep it running with the 283 right up until the day you are ready to install your 348 or 409. You can get into the 14's with almost any combination of parts in a 348 or 409. Please post up some pictures when you can and soak up everything from the old build threads that you can!

 

[63 dream'n]

I strongly suggest you take the advise given and wait for the swap till the W's ready......tore mine apart, life threw some curves,cars never been back together.I''ve regretted it ever since........enjoy and drive your hot rod.Oh,welcome to the group!!!!!!

 

[Ridge Overholt]

Welcome and congratulations on choosing a great car and wanting an awesome W engine for it!!! So nice to read instead of you wanting something with Vtech.

All great solid advice above, but I can't help but like Poison Ivy's last advice the most. Keep it running with the 283 right up until the day you are ready to install your 348 or 409. You can get into the 14's with almost any combination of parts in a 348 or 409. Please post up some pictures when you can and soak up everything from the old build threads that you can!

Thanks for the advice and that's the plan. As of right now the car hasn't ran in 6 months or so the guy I bought it from said. So my plan is to get it running with the set up it has now wait until I have everything: engine rebuilt and ready, the Muncie, the rear end, the drive shaft, all the petal linkage, a new column, along with all the little cosmetics. Thank you all for the advice I definitely will follow it. I know how you all are with pictures as of right now I just have pictures from when it was in Cali. As I said I just purchased it and right now it will be in Reno for two weeks until I can get down there to pick it up.

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

I LIKE IT, just as it is !
NICE WHEELS ! !

348 with 3.50" or 3.766" stroke, proper pistons / rods, cam, ported small port heads.
Well within budget,
Ditch the Muncie, and use a Super T10 with a 2.64 or 2.88 first gear.

 

[Jim Sullivan]

Cool ride and welcome to the site!

 

[1961BelAir427]

Aubrey makes a good point about the Super T10 over the Muncie. My 4 speeds are muncies just because that happens to be what I ended up with, but since you are starting from scratch......the Super T10 is a little stronger than the Muncie and parts are easy to get for them. You can probably pick one up a little cheaper than the Muncie too.