New Rebuild Start Up Procedures/Input needed

[Iowa409]

Yep as far as the thermostat, the engine run stand I bought just has hose adapters .....there is no radiator, I do not like that, but that was the way the budget priced engine run stand came, I could modify it to add a radiator, but did not......... they say run the garden hose to it, no thermostat, and adjust your flow to represent 180-190F as it warms up, since I do have a temperature gauge, oil and tach, I can monitor it.

I do have radiators and a thermostat, I could mock up, if you all think that's a better route, it will be a little bit of work to get the temperature just right initially. As long as I keep the flow moving at a slower rate and as temp rises I thought I could slowly bring the flow up, they also do not want the water pump turning on this set up, just the correct flow to the inlet of the engine, discharge on to the ground, so I am guessing flow rate is everything?

 

[La Hot Rods]

The only thing I don't like on a setup like that, you are always running cold water into an engine that is trying to build heat.

 

[Don Jacks]

I'd want a radiator,and a working water pump.As James said,you need to build heat in that engine.

 

[Toms63SSQB]

Couldn't you build heat by controlling the amount of water with a valve.

 

[La Hot Rods]

If you are controlling it out the output side, if you try and slow it done on the inlet side you stand a chance of not having the system full.

 

[303Radar]

What about a restrictor plate with a half inch or so hole?

 

[Junky]

It bugs the hell out of me when people ask for advise, and when they get good advise from the knowledgeable people others keep coming back with more ideas that are contrary to the good advise that they has been given. If you aren't going to heed good advise, then why do you ask? Some people just can't take someone else's statement that the oven is hot, so they stick their hand on it and get burned. How many times do you have to get burned before you learn to listen to good advise?
Oh...... I started my period this evening, and I am particularly grumpy, I will be better in a few days... LOL

 

[Iowa 409 Guy]

Lots of Bucks invested, no time for shortcuts now me thinks.

 

[Iowa409]

Whoa JUNKY, calm down fellar, I asked for advice yes indeed, I am a smart enough fellar to take what I can use and garbage can the rest.

There are certain members on here that I have a repore with, that I totally trust their opinions, well.......in fact that is why I come here.

I think everyone has an idea or two, but it does not make their opinion right, or one that I will go with....... AS I INDICATED, I do not like the engine start stand I bought, but it was affordable, I have my big money in the motor and the car, as I also indicated I could fab up something to use my radiator and thermostat. I do not have a conventional 409 set up, I am running a March Billet serpentine system, so I am using electric fans, 2 12" fans to be exact, so after researching and talking to those n here who have done this a few times, I will come up with a game plan, BASED on what I have came up with for information FROM THIS SITE, I personally just do not want to be rude to folks who have always been kind and pleasant to me.

So I am going to take the high road here and assume its your time of the month as you indicated, but I am ALWAYS open to other roads.

 

[La Hot Rods]

If you fab up a radiator still just run a gutted thermostat, have a garden hose with a spray nozzle handy to spray down the radiator to keep it cool if needed, and more than likely you will.

 

[Iowa409]

Ok, so I think we are all on the same page, run the radiator, make it a sealed system, meaning run the water pump as well ? I'll have a hose nearby to cool the radiator as needed and instead of wiring up my two 12" fans I have a commercial electric fan that I'll use to blow through the radiator that I can dial in on low/medium/high to get the motor running at what? 190 F consistently? 180 F?. The next question is purely for education. Why do I want to gut the thermostat instead of letting it open/close naturally? I am guessing here but maybe because at 2000 RPM, its going to run wide open anyways? so we are just assuring it is full open for flow? why not leave it out completely is what stumps me? Or do we want to let the thermostat stay closed (not cut out) until it comes up to temp then open naturally on the heat rise?

I am in complete agreement that running the hose at a reduced flow to get the temperature up, is bull crap, and hitting that cast iron motor with cold 55 degree water would not be in my best interest. Also if I cannot build temp AND pressure how would I know where any leaks are, or be assured I am getting a full passage of water through all the ports and critical areas, so I think the pressurizing of the system is a must also.

I could never have got this far without the help of this board/forum, so I want you all to know how I appreciate your input and help.

Everything I have done so far has been at the forums direction, with my own common sense mixed in, its been working pretty well so far.....much respect to you all.

 

[models916]

If the cam bearings have been changed, check out the oiling to the lifter gallery before you start it.

 

[La Hot Rods]

If you run it with the thermostat, being you have to get the rpms up to 2000 as soon as it starts, there is a chance of an air lock or air pocket in the system. If the stat is gutted there is no chance.
If you just remove it the water speed will be to fast to get much cooling.

 

[427John]

Failure to get some heat in the engine could affect the ring seat process,whatever you do don't run it cold for an extended period I saw a graph once that was cylinder wear vs operating temp for a 50 hour run once they got below 160* the cylinder wear rate went up horrendously quick.I don't remember what the lowest temp on the graph was but it showed a wear of .006 after 50 hours.

 

[Junky]

Whoa JUNKY, calm down fellar, I asked for advice yes indeed, I am a smart enough fellar to take what I can use and garbage can the rest.

There are certain members on here that I have a repore with, that I totally trust their opinions, well.......in fact that is why I come here.

I think everyone has an idea or two, but it does not make their opinion right, or one that I will go with....... AS I INDICATED, I do not like the engine start stand I bought, but it was affordable, I have my big money in the motor and the car, as I also indicated I could fab up something to use my radiator and thermostat. I do not have a conventional 409 set up, I am running a March Billet serpentine system, so I am using electric fans, 2 12" fans to be exact, so after researching and talking to those n here who have done this a few times, I will come up with a game plan, BASED on what I have came up with for information FROM THIS SITE, I personally just do not want to be rude to folks who have always been kind and pleasant to me.

So I am going to take the high road here and assume its your time of the month as you indicated, but I am ALWAYS open to other roads.

I agree with you 100%, and my comment wasn't intended or directed toward you. It really irks me when people that have no or limited experience want to chime in with suggestions (what if / how about, etc.), instead of reading and learning from those who have the experience. I understand the engine stand dilemma that it didn't come with a radiator, and I also understand how important it is not to flood a new engine continually with cold water. I understand the mechanics of a new engine build, and how important it is to do the break in correctly, and the consequences if it isn't done correctly. This is one of those times when it isn't a dress rehearsal, and you only get one chance to do it correctly. I am also smart enough to know that procedures have changed with more modern technology in engine building. That is why I didn't make any suggestions, but take my own advise to read and learn, rather than just throwing out suggestions that have no chance of ever working. Simple understanding of thermodynamics is as important today, as it was 60 years ago, when I first started turning wrenches. Way too many people don't understand that removing a thermostat will inhibit an engine from reaching its correct operating temperature in a timely manner. If the thermostat is working correctly, and the cooling system is functioning properly, the thermostat will open and close when needed, and maintain the proper operating temperature of the engine. One thing that I have noticed in many new thermostats, is that they are no longer installing a bypass hole in the thermostat. In the old days, we would install a new thermostat that was modified by drilling out the 1/8" hole that was drilled by the manufacturer to 1/4", to facilitate faster removal of trapped air in a new build. The rule of fluid movement, is that if you double the diameter, you will increase the flow capacity by a factor of 4. Another thing that I point out to many people is that years ago, rubber hose manufacturers installed a metal "spring" in the lower radiator hose to prevent its collapse under certain operating conditions. Today, as a cost saving initiative, they no longer install this spring. This is why it is important to remove the spring from an old hose, and install it into the replacement hose.
Once again, I was in no way disparaging you in your quest to break in your newly rebuilt engine correctly.
Junk

 

[Jim Sullivan]

One thing to keep in mind is that a freshly rebuilt engine has a tendency to run hotter on the initial start up. Your fan in front of the radiator may not move enough air through the radiator to keep it cool.

 

[La Hot Rods]

Just thinking of a list of things to have on hand.
Timing light
dwell meter (I run points)
Test light
fire extinguisher
stethoscope
inferred temp gun
basic wrenches and screw drivers for timing and idle
clock


Thought I would share as I am fixing to start up a fresh rebuild of a different breed, and was looking what I had set out for the event.
And the celebratory after drink.

 

[bjburnout]

I'd want a radiator,and a working water pump.As James said,you need to build heat in that engine.

.......added rad to this run stand.........worked great.........

 

[wristpin]

427John...triggering a timing light as described will work with a dual point setup but you need to disconnect or prevent the arc jump when doing each.

 

[Iowa409]

Junky, thank you for saying that, I am sorry I took it the wrong way, my apoligies as well, your all good guys in the group, I think the explanation
LA HotRod gave is crystal clear as to WHY not to just leave the thermostat out and that makes perfect sense, now that I understand it.

I am going to be a pro as soon as I get all the information out of all of your heads and into mine lol, thank you all. awesome stuff here.


BJ Burnout, that stand is very similar to mine, I can certainly mount my Aluminum 3 core radiator to the stand somehow and run it as a sealed system, I can also put the serpentine belt on and activate the water pump, I do not want to wire the fans up to this rig, BUT the fan I have is going to move more air than the two 2000 cfm fans I have, it's a commercial unit, in fact I may have to turn it down I am guessing to let it get hot enough, but rest assured I will be keeping a tight eye on it, if I start to loose control of it, I will immediately turn the fan up a notch and run the hose through the radiator to help quickly get control back over it, awesome advice guys.

I have not yet talk to one person who thinks the garden hose adapters is a good idea.


So we are certainly zeroing in on a solid game plan...... so they say if your not sure ask, so heres the other area I am still a little fuzzy on,
I know I have this distributor at TDC, and Zero on the timing marks of the timing cover. I am going to obviously pull the distributor to use the oiler tool to get that oil moving prior to start up, so.... I'll go back through the same procedure to get it back to TDC, NOW so I clearly understand those timing marks, (Dons Suggestion) when I go to BTDC 12-15 degrees for start up purposes, If I am going off of my zero mark, how many marks would that be in reverse (BTDC) to be there? Then once its running and I have completed the break in, with a timing light where should it be set, keep in mind, stock everything in this motor, I have read and read total timing, but do not think it is quite clicking for me just yet.


Just think guys my ignorance is keeping you guys smart, I won't let you forget what you know, by keeping you on your toes educating me lol.