Not enough caster on 62.

[junkyard junky]

Installed a Borgeson 600 gear box, universal joint and shaft on my 62 chevy. Took it to the alignment shop and they got it to factory specs but can not get it to the 2.5 to 3.5 degrees caster. Did a search on the forum didn't find anyone saying that offset bars for the top a frame worked. Found the part number for Moog. Speedway Motors also sells the pair of offset bars which add an additional 2 degrees. Would like to find some offset bars that go up to 3 deg. Anyone else ever have a problem like I do? Called Borgeson and the guy I talked to said there should be no reason why I couldn't get the 2.5-3.5 degrees with the stock parts. He suggested I go find another alignment shop but the one I went to has been in business by the same guy since 1972.

 

[Ishiftem]

I can't get 2.5 even with the offset cross shafts.

 

[1961BelAir427]

I can't get 2.5 even with the offset cross shafts.

Dan, where are you at with them?

Junkyard Junky: What is your caster without the offset shafts?

I'll be following this one. I've been trying to keep up with as much front end alignment threads as I can because that's on my (never-ending) list of things to do.

 

[junkyard junky]

I can't get 2.5 even with the offset cross shafts.

How is your steering?

On the back roads at 45mph the car wants to take off to the right or left. When in the city on a straight stretch where the road is level and no breaks in the pavement it stays straight as an arrow. Caster is at positive half a degree on both sides right now. Haven't bought any offset bars yet. I'm not to thrilled with Borgeson's Tech department.

 

[62impala409]

How does changing the steering gear box affect caster?. What am I missing? Leo

 

[1961BelAir427]

That seems odd. I've never had trouble like that after driving several of these cars. After I redid my control arm bushings and ball joints, I did a "ball-park alignment" with a tape measure and it didn't wonder at speeds up to 60 MPH. I hadn't driven it that much since it hasn't had a real alignment, but it was on old back roads. I just want to add some caster to make it stay straight at 100+ at the track. Gotta get it running again first.

 

[jim_ss409]

I can't remember the factory specs off hand but I think in may have called for zero caster.
It seems like back in those days they were so proud of their power steering that they wanted little or no caster so that the car would be super easy to steer.
I'm no expert but I gather that little or no caster tends to transmit very little feel for the road and the steering will feel vague.

When we drove Jim's 61 Pontiac (X frame car) on a 1300 mile trip it steered Ok with the factory power steering, but after changing it over to a C4 Corvette front end with about 6 to 8 degrees of positive caster it was ten times better. It just felt a lot more planted.
I don't think these cars need 6 to 8 degrees but 2 or 3 sure couldn't hurt.

I doubt there's anything wrong with the alignment shop or their equipment. It's very common for these cars to not have enough adjustment.
It could be that the front K member has bent inwards just a little after decades of hitting bumps. For whatever reason, it's sometimes hard to just get to the factory setting let alone add any extra caster.

Moog used to make offset top bars to address the problem but I don't think they make them any more. As you mentioned, Speedway now offers them and there are some tubular A arms out there with an extra 2 or 3 degrees of positive caster built in.
You can grind just a little off of the stock bar to maybe gain a degree or two. It has a raised bump that could probably be ground down just a tiny bit without compromising the strength but again, I don't think you'd gain enough doing that.

 

[Ishiftem]

How is your steering?

On the back roads at 45mph the car wants to take off to the right or left. When in the city on a straight stretch where the road is level and no breaks in the pavement it stays straight as an arrow. Caster is at positive half a degree on both sides right now. Haven't bought any offset bars yet. I'm not to thrilled with Borgeson's Tech department.

I wouldn't think ill of Borgeson. It's not really there jobs to know the idiosyncrasies of every make and model. Like Jim said, it seems to be a problem that isn't totally uncommon. I think I have 1 1/4 on mine. The car goes straight but feels a little vague at 100+ mph.

 

[boxerdog]

The best fix for both caster and camber I have tried is Southwest Speed upper control arms. Part 101-9163, uses minimum shims too, good header clearance.

 

[1961BelAir427]

The best fix for both caster and camber I have tried is Southwest Speed upper control arms. Part 101-9163, uses minimum shims too, good header clearance.

They look pretty beefy. How long have you been using them?

 

[junkyard junky]

How does changing the steering gear box affect caster?. What am I missing? Leo

The new Delphi 600 gear box and plate is rotated a little. I'm guess due to this, you need more caster. I'm not sure but its my guess.

Looks like the best bet is to order the speedway bars and see what that does. I've seen tubular a arms and are quite a bit of money for my old wagon since I'm not restoring it. I've rebuilt the whole front end with Moog parts.

When I called about the box the first individual just sat there saying nothing. Went home and checked this forum out. Called back another day and talked to a different individual and was told to take it to another alignment shop and that a 62 should have no problem getting 3.5 deg caster. I was trying to explain what the car was doing and was being cut off. Seemed like the blame was getting passed to someone else. This forum has helped me the most. I'm a younger guy looking for someone who has more knowledge than I do.

 

[Ishiftem]

The steering box location will have no bearing on what your caster is or should be.

 

[62impala409]

Did you replace the rubber bushing in the upper and lower A arms. They tend to rot out and affect the driveability big time. The car will feel sloppy and wander. I have the original P/S on my car and had at aligned at a local repair shop 20 years ago after rebuilding the front suspension. The car handles and steers remarkably well for a 52 year old design. A big improvement in handling came when I went to 6" wide rims. I have never had a reason to re engineer the steering on my car. Leo

 

[models916]

Couldn't you just slot the upper A frame bolt holes and add a semi-round shim in back. I see it on the circle track cars all the time. Speedway also sells the bracket welded to the frame that could be positioned for more caster.

 

[boxerdog]

They look pretty beefy. How long have you been using them?

I had another brand at first (McGaughy's) that required a pile of shims and still couldn't get enough caster. I believe they were a little long to help with alignment on cars that had sagged over time...or they were designed on a car that had sagged.

On the other hand, the Southwest Speed units are reasonably priced and fit perfectly, I put them on at the beginning of the year. They come with everything, pre-assembled.

 

[1961BelAir427]

Thanks Dave!

 

[Jim Sullivan]

Just my 2 cents worth, back when our cars were produced, the old bias tires had a higher rolling resistance than modern radials(or even modern bias ply reproductions). That combined with lower highway speeds,( also what Jim said above about Chevrolet wanting the cars to be easy to steer)didn't require that much positive caster for the car to track straight. Now with modern tires and higher speeds, the more positive caster the better. I would like to get about +3 to +4 degrees myself, but with the frame sag, I have never been able to get more that about +2 if I am lucky. I believe that in the future, anytime that I have an engine out I will use a port-o-power to push the frame apart at the upper control arm area. Maybe spread it apart an extra 1/2" to 1"?

I don't know if this makes sense but just my opinion.

 

[Skip FIx]

Plus we've all gotten used to modern cars and trucks with more caster!

My Trans Ams to try and get decent cornering aligment can barely get 2-3 degrees caster with -0.5 camber without the A arm hitting the steering shaft! I's love for my '97 Chevy truck I use to tow the cars to have more caster also but the ecentrics are adjusted all the way

 

[chevymusclecars]

I worked at a Chevy dealer in the 60s and Chevelles had a problem getting the caster adjusted within spec. We would put them on the frame rack, tie them down on the frame rail near the suspension and raise the middle to bend the top of the rails outward. I don't think you will move the frame with a porta-power but a frame shop could move it for you.

Bill

 

[junkyard junky]

The bushing are all new. I replaced everything, ball joints, top and bottom a arm bushings and 4 tie rod ends. I'm not sure if I want to go with the offset bars from speedway since some people are having a hard time eve getting 2 degrees on caster. The tubular upper a arms sounds the best way to go but I already spent the money on Moog upper bushings, bars and ball joints. Seems like I'm throwing money away. Going to call Borgeson tomorrow and see what they say if I get get 2- 2.5 degrees and I still have the problem. There is no way I can get 4 or 5 degrees like the first guy said I needed. I may just buy a used 605 gearbox off an 80's gm car and see how it works.