Not enough caster on 62.

models916

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 7
Still one frame shop in my area that can do the alignment by bending the frame if needed. Others just say it can't be done. The new tire shop by me doesn't even know what an alignment shim is.
 

de31168

Well Known Member
Installed a Borgeson 600 gear box, universal joint and shaft on my 62 chevy. Took it to the alignment shop and they got it to factory specs but can not get it to the 2.5 to 3.5 degrees caster. Did a search on the forum didn't find anyone saying that offset bars for the top a frame worked. Found the part number for Moog. Speedway Motors also sells the pair of offset bars which add an additional 2 degrees. Would like to find some offset bars that go up to 3 deg. Anyone else ever have a problem like I do? Called Borgeson and the guy I talked to said there should be no reason why I couldn't get the 2.5-3.5 degrees with the stock parts. He suggested I go find another alignment shop but the one I went to has been in business by the same guy since 1972.

I'm not sure how much time you have to wait, but we also just bought this same setup to use on our 63 Chevy we are getting ready for the 4th of July Parade. It just came in the mail today. Have not installed it yet. I see in the directions where you might have to redrill the idler arm to match the pitman arm angle. I also see at the bottom where they state:

It is highly recommended to get an alignment when completed. We recommend increasing the caster
to 3-4 degrees positive to aid in straight line stability and return to center.

So, once we get it all setup, and put on our alignment machine we have, I'll let you know what the results are and what we come up with on ours from the factory setting vs what they are trying to accomplish.
 

62impala409

 
Supporting Member 1
This is going to be an interesting thread. A lot of owners have changed their steer boxes over the years but I have not seen many complaints regarding ill handling. Is this only a Borgeson issue with the need for increased caster? Seems that many have upgraded with the old 605 boxes without complaint.:scratch. Keep us updated. Leo
 

Ishiftem

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
The steering box has zero to do with a car needing more or less caster. Absolutely nothing. The only reason Borgeson would make that recommendation is because the car will track better and feel more secure with more caster no matter what type or brand of box you use and that includes rack and pinion. The factory specs for our cars is zero degrees which might of been a great idea in 1960s thinking, but not today. The only thing that might happen is that the car feels like it has too much play in the wheel which would be caused by the gear not being on the high point which would be an installation error. That still wouldn't make the car dart or feel like it jumps side to side.
 

de31168

Well Known Member
Well you're also adding in the steering assist, and quickening the ratio from a stock 22.1 to 14.1. (You gain an extra 10 degrees of steering at the tire for one full turn of the steering wheel.) Obviously the power steering assist will combat the extra steering force for a lower ratio and higher positive caster. The caster will help from having to counter steer it and keep it more stable. It may "feel" darty, because a small turn on your end makes a much bigger turn on the tire end than it used to. It kind of all works in unison really. Although that's also taking into consideration the larger diameter steering wheels these cars have. Switching to a smaller wheel also changes steering effort and overcorrection. I understand the logic behind it.
 
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4speedman

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
I agree with lshiftem the steering box has nothing to do with the caster.Many years ago i had one of my cars on a frame rack and i remember the guys who did the work talking about the frame sag between the aframes being a commom problem on these cars.They had ways to measure between reference points on the frame.I watched them and they tied both sides of the frame down and jacked the middle part under the engine up which spread the frame apart then they measured the reference points then set the camber and caster and toe end and that was it.Think about it if the frame is to close together if only a half inch the caster cannot be set you can only go as far as remove all the shims.I think the frame could be spread apart at any home shop that has a way to tie the two sides down.
 
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jim_ss409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
I think a bicycle is a good example of caster at work.
All bicycles have positive caster and that caster allows you to ride with no hands.
 
No big rush right now. The car was always a little weird feeling when trying to drive it. With the factory power steering I would take turns and the front end felt loose and the back felt tight. Kind of like over loading a a long bed half ton truck with a trailer. Where the front wheels look like they're going to come off the ground. The reason why I got rid of the factory equipment is because the control valve was worn and leaked fluid. The hoses were dry rotten and the gear box had some play in it. In the instructions off the website it says 2.5-3.5 degrees. I re positioned the idler arm just like the instructions said to I'm not going to have the frame strapped down and bent. Don't think there is anyone in town to do it. Use to have a good alignment guy who knew everything but he had a brain aneurysm and died. When I rebuilt the suspension ( Ball joints and a arm bushings) I still used the old tie rod ends.With the factory ps, it wasn't like a late model with rack n pinion but it wasn't this bad. I could go down the road no matter back roads or interstate and it would stay in the road with no problem.

On the way back from a car show saturday night which was about 35 miles one way I came up on a long straight stretch, no one was in front of me or behind me. Just held it in my lane and when I hit 50 it started going to the left. I just held it there at the same speed. Once I got to the center of the road it stopped and stayed there. I put over 100 miles on it that day so I got a good feel and was trying it out. I used the stock pump but changed the fitting for the pressure hose from a male end to a female end. The stock piece is a 1/16 inch shorter than the other female end that I installed. Would that make a difference on the pressure valve in the ps pump? Also installed the brass fittings in order to have flared hose ends.
 

chevymusclecars

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
One thing that I don't see anyone has mentioned is centering the steering box. The steering box has a center where it is not exerting any help in either direction. The steering wheel should be installed when the box is centered and not put on in another position to make it look correct. Centering the steering wheel should be done by adjusting the tie rod to keep the steering box centered. When the toe end is set the steering wheel can be centered by moving the adjusters on the tie rod.

Bill
 

blkblk63ss

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 5
The 63 shop manual supplement show's caster at 0 + or - 1/2 degree. The camber is 1/2 + or - 1/2 degree. Toe is 1/8 . to 1/4. --------------- SKIP FIX-----------------:yup
 
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boxerdog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
I think they are all happier on today's tires with 3+ degrees of caster, it can be hard to do with stock parts and minimal shims. Saggy frames, bump steer and aftermarket steering boxes can further complicate alignment and/or driveability, but it can usually be done if you are persistent and have a good alignment guy to work with.
 

Skip FIx

Well Known Member
Man a 1/2 degree neg caster and 1/2 positive camber would be scarey around a turn! I like a little less toe also.
 
I called Southwest Speed and their tubular a arms didn't offer any additional caster. Thats what the guy on the phone said. I'll have to pass on the Global West parts. I had to pull the wheel when I was trying to see why my turn signals were messed up. Told the alignment shop not to worry about getting the steering wheel, I could re position it later. Just spoke to Eckler's Late Great Chevy about not getting the correct caster and the lady on the other end talked to their technician. The technician said that the 2.5-3.5 degree of caster was just a suggestion. That is exactly what she said. So Eckler's made it sound like the caster doesn't matter, Borgeson says it does. I may just put the stock cylinder on, buy new hoses, control valve and stick to the stock steering.
 
I forgot to mention that right before the car show, I pulled the belt off the power steering pump and I could get up to 55 mph until it started to wonder.
 

MRHP

 
Supporting Member 1
Those are what I have. Seems like good stuff. Could you reduce the pressure the pump is making to get a better feel? I think they do that with rack and pinion stuff.
 

boxerdog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
All I can tell you is that the Southwest Speed units let me get to 3* caster with 0 camber. McGaughys won't unless you have a sagged frame, then they might....

I don't imagine anyone is going to promise you anything (maybe the adjustable ones) because of the frames tending to sag.
 
I'm not sure how much time you have to wait, but we also just bought this same setup to use on our 63 Chevy we are getting ready for the 4th of July Parade. It just came in the mail today. Have not installed it yet. I see in the directions where you might have to redrill the idler arm to match the pitman arm angle. I also see at the bottom where they state:

It is highly recommended to get an alignment when completed. We recommend increasing the caster
to 3-4 degrees positive to aid in straight line stability and return to center.

So, once we get it all setup, and put on our alignment machine we have, I'll let you know what the results are and what we come up with on ours from the factory setting vs what they are trying to accomplish.


Wondering how your gear box turned out. Found the specs on mine from the alignment shop. Left caster .52, right .63. Left camber .01, right .10.
 
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