S spark plugs debate

[Junky]

"Typically the heat range for NGK Spark Plugs varies from 2-11. This number indicates the thermal characteristics of a spark plug, or how 'hot' or 'cold' a spark plug is. The term hot/cold is commonly used to describe whether a spark plug heats up easily (hot) or whether it provides resistance to heating up (cold)."

 

[Don Jacks]

When comparing the numbers from NGK to plugs like AC,Autolite,ect.,the higher the number on the NGK,the colder it is.This is the inverse of the others as on them the higher the number,the hotter the heat range.

 

[427John]

My concern is that all of this cold running,short operating time is going to KILL the cylinder walls due to fuel wash.I did a HEMI several years ago that had been a show car for about 12 years.When the car was built,they had installed a new Mopar performance stroker Hemi in it.They had put maybe 500 miles on it prior to selling it.When it got too me,it smoked profusely from the tail pipes[blue smoke],you could smell the burning oil.It had massive blow by,and was way down on power.After it was torn down,the taper in the walls was so bad that it took an 040 overbore just to get the walls in shape.The owner of the car didn't believe me about the wear and taper until I showed him.When he got it back,he looped it in front of the station,very nearly wrecking the thing! I couldn't resist asking him"Where did you get the idea that you could handle 550 horsepower"?

#34
Don this may have contribute to the accelerated cylinder wear in addition to fuel wash. Failure to get some heat in the engine could affect the ring seat process,whatever you do don't run it cold for an extended period I saw a graph once that was cylinder wear vs operating temp for a 50 hour run once they got below 160* the cylinder wear rate went up horrendously quick.I don't remember what the lowest temp on the graph was but it showed a wear of .006 after 50 hours.

 

[rstreet]

Robert may understand that.

aah... yes I have to have the AC canister oil filter system but I think the internal unseen cartridge filter is a Hastings on the 62 and not sure what cartridge is in the 61. The 61 convertible that isn't shown competitively in AACA has a short "spin on" filter due to the poor excuse for an exhaust system, as I would have to drop the exhaust pipe do pull the canister off if I had one on it.
oh speaking of oil filters many years ago on a FE motor I had pulled the oil filter off and threaded a new one on without looking at the filter surface. When fired it up and checked for leaks I had one! Pulled the filter off and there were two gaskets. The gasket on the one I had removed stuck to the block and I didn't look at the filter after removal just tossed in the trash. Since then I look up at the filter housing to see if a gasket is there.
Robert

 

[Don Jacks]

Very well could be on to something there,John.That,and the PO had been very lax in oil changes.The fuel wash led to camshaft wear[badly],heck even the valve guides in the aluminum heads were trashed.These engines sold new for around 10 grand.The type of operation,and lack of service,cost my customer about that when all was said and done.

 

[rstreet]

Just as a S series spark plug follow up to my original question. Don Jacks didn't think there would be a problem using a S series plug so found a set of 46S AC plugs and installed them. Since this Pontiac SD doesn't like to start quickly I didn't think I heard any piston touching the tips as my "local advisor" was gravely concerned about. The car fired up and ran the smoothest it has in years!
Don thanks man.
Robert

 

[Don Jacks]

Glad that it worked,Robert.Now have that guy CHANGE THE OIL!!!!!!! That SD is too rare and too expensive to waste!

 

[rstreet]

Very well could be on to something there,John.That,and the PO had been very lax in oil changes.The fuel wash led to camshaft wear[badly],heck even the valve guides in the aluminum heads were trashed.These engines sold new for around 10 grand.The type of operation,and lack of service,cost my customer about that when all was said and done.

Yes Don; John has me thinking. I hope we are in a bit of a different situation as my motors aren't revved and only run for a couple minutes or so. But! I have to do a show in Virginia Beach this weekend and will be changing oil and filters to multi vis synthetic in both next week!
should I save the filters for you during your next drive up this way.

robert

 

[real61ss]

Robert,
What are you talking about, "an internal unseen cannister type oil filter"?

 

[rstreet]

Robert,
What are you talking about, "an internal unseen cannister type oil filter"?

Hmm wasn't clear on that one.... Our judges don't unscrew the AC cannister filter holder to see if an AC filter cartridge is in there Doug stocks Hastings cartridges for the 60's era cans. I can't get him to stock AC 46's plugs either though.

 

[Jim Sullivan]

You'd better delete your post Robert, the Judges might find out about your filter.

 

[real61ss]

Hmm wasn't clear on that one.... Our judges don't unscrew the AC cannister filter holder to see if an AC filter cartridge is in there Doug stocks Hastings cartridges for the 60's era cans. I can't get him to stock AC 46's plugs either though.

Advance Auto has the cannister filters, or they did, i havent bought any lately.

 

[427John]

Glad that it worked,Robert.Now have that guy CHANGE THE OIL!!!!!!! That SD is too rare and too expensive to waste!

I agree an engine as rare as a real SD would warrant very frequent oil changes and possibly an engine heater to prevent wear as much as possible in the show car situations.

 

[61BUBBLE348]

When comparing the numbers from NGK to plugs like AC,Autolite,ect.,the higher the number on the NGK,the colder it is.This is the inverse of the others as on them the higher the number,the hotter the heat range.

I found that out 12 months ago, the 61 was running a bit off 1200 miles from home, I thought I would try a couple higher points, went from a BP5ES to BP7ES, ran good for about 20 miles, then bam, ran like shit for the next 200 miles through very hilly terrain, got about 7 MPG, before the trip home cleaned the old plugs and put them back in, I think I bought some bad fuel and it took about 600 miles before it was all clear.
The lesson learned was it is more than likely bad fuel than bad plugs, considering I had no trouble before or after the running off event.

 

[grumpy]

I believe PF-141 oil filter. Last time I changed one was 1968, and memory is fading.

 

[Junky]

I believe PF-141 oil filter. Last time I changed one was 1968, and memory is fading.

I must have at least 3 or 4 AC PF-141 in the garage. Good for showing on a shelf only.

 

[rstreet]

Gosh you guys are rough on me! I'll start my new oil change pattern this week after cleaning up the 61 car from the Virginia Beach show. Probably use a couple of Hastings cartridge filters as they are conveniently close by.

Robert

 

[rstreet]

Glad that it worked,Robert.Now have that guy CHANGE THE OIL!!!!!!! That SD is too rare and too expensive to waste!

Don the 62 SD was delivered to the east coast in 2004 and hasn't had an oil change!! But has only been out of garage about 4 times. Progress though now it runs much better with it's new 46 series heat range AC plugs.
Robert

 

[oldskydog]

Robert,
Is that the same SD to took me to see when I was there ages ago?

 

[rstreet]

Yes Cecil same one it hasn’t moved. I did do a national show in Virginia Beach with it a couple years ago.
Robert