Sleeve a cylinder

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Who makes the best sleeves for 348-409? What type of sleeves has everyone used? Are they used in every day drivers and racing? Do they make wet sleeves for 348-409 engines? Had someone ask me about putting a sleeve in a block. I haven't had to do it yet myself but there isn't much information about it other than several people have done it. To what extent was it done? Meaning was it used to fix a thin wall, bad scoring, or a cracked/ busted cylinder? How bad can a cylinder be where it can still be fixed? I would guess if a cylinder is cracked (let alone with a hole in it) then the entire block is junk. Thanks for any input!
 

Tom Kochtanek

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 12
I had a block that was "windowed" with a 2 square inch chunk missing and was able to have it sleeved. Currently have an "068" block that Tony of Day Automotive pressed two sleeves into bores that were pitted. Currently have an "814" block that needs two sleeves and has cracks in the valley that need attention. Also have a passenger block that is thin walled at .100" over and it would be a candidate for all 8 sleeves. Gotta save 'em if you can!
 

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Sounds good guys. I kind of figured they could be saved no matter the condition but I've never had to try. I have a couple blocks that I figured were junk due to damage in the cylinder wall but maybe they can be fixed. I may take the worst one up to Mid-States machine and check with them. My guess is they can handle anything I can bring them considering some of the engines I saw when I walked in there last. I looked up Darton but all they have for 348-409 is repair sleeves. I didn't know if someone made an actual "wet sleeve" that has extensive machine work to fit in the block.
 

63impalass409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
I always thought being in the trucking world is a wet sleeve is for like big diesel engines that during a rebuild the sleeve is always replaced and has an o ring to seal it and it's just part of the rebuild. Now for 409's I have 2 repair sleeves put in an 814 QB block due to rust pits and runs .40 over Ross pistons and 690 heads and 881 intake with factory carbs and a z11 cam and I can tell you out of the 6 409's I have this one is the nastiest sounding best running motor I have ever had.
 

Barry Taylor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Ronnies last race motor that I’m running now has one sleeve. Several of the motors we ran had sleeves with no problems. We always put a can of K&W metallic seal in during the first start up and warm up to temperature then drain and leave cooling system open overnight. Every motor Ronnie ever built got this done sleeved or not.
 

427John

Well Known Member
Sounds good guys. I kind of figured they could be saved no matter the condition but I've never had to try. I have a couple blocks that I figured were junk due to damage in the cylinder wall but maybe they can be fixed. I may take the worst one up to Mid-States machine and check with them. My guess is they can handle anything I can bring them considering some of the engines I saw when I walked in there last. I looked up Darton but all they have for 348-409 is repair sleeves. I didn't know if someone made an actual "wet sleeve" that has extensive machine work to fit in the block.
If you were to bore the cylinders completely out and wet sleeve the deck surface would loose its structural support from the cylinders,completely boring the cylinders out and installing sleeves has been done but they furnace brazed them at the top and bottom.If you can get access to a hot rod yearbook for I believe 1961 they have an article in there where they did that to a 283 block.As long as most of the cylinders are still intact to provide that support,theoretically there is no reason why you can't sleeve multiple windowed cylinders,but you do get into economics at some point.
 

409gang

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
I had one sleeve put in my Nova block at Morleys due to a rust pit, I also remember when I was down at LWA Lamar told me its not a good idea to put sleeves in adjoining cylinders as it would lift the deck. I would bet he was talking about an engine you were squeezing as much power as possible out of and not a street cruiser. I also never heard of a wet sleeve on a automotive engine, only diesel engines, if you bored the cylinder all the way out there would be nothing holding the deck down.
 

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
I had one sleeve put in my Nova block at Morleys due to a rust pit, I also remember when I was down at LWA Lamar told me its not a good idea to put sleeves in adjoining cylinders as it would lift the deck. I would bet he was talking about an engine you were squeezing as much power as possible out of and not a street cruiser. I also never heard of a wet sleeve on a automotive engine, only diesel engines, if you bored the cylinder all the way out there would be nothing holding the deck down.
Wet sleeve stuff is high performance for sure. Darton has wet sleeves for a number of applications not just diesel.
https://dartonsleeves.com/tech-publications/current-darton-catalogue/
 

409gang

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
I don't think they are for production engine blocks, they would be for aftermarket blocks that were designed for a wet sleeve. I don't know how a production block would stay together if you bored out all the cylinders into the water jackets. Maybe some of the newer stuff but not the old iron blocks that I ever heard of, I could be wrong thou.
 

409gang

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
I have seen diesel engines that are wet sleeve and dry liner sleeves that are not wet, a true wet sleeve has O rings to seal the cylinder from the water jacket as there is no cylinder when you pull the sleeve out. The blocks are designed different so the deck is supported by other means than the cylinder.
 

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
When I run up and grab my heads from Mid-West Cylinder heads I'll be taking a block along to ask them about how and what they would do to fix a block with a hole knocked into the cylinder. Around these parts there is no one better then them. Whatever they tell me I will pass it on here with pictures of the block cylinder with holes in it too. They might say its a paper weight. LOL!
 

fourzeronine

Well Known Member
Who makes the best sleeves for 348-409? What type of sleeves has everyone used? Are they used in every day drivers and racing? Do they make wet sleeves for 348-409 engines? Had someone ask me about putting a sleeve in a block. I haven't had to do it yet myself but there isn't much information about it other than several people have done it. To what extent was it done? Meaning was it used to fix a thin wall, bad scoring, or a cracked/ busted cylinder? How bad can a cylinder be where it can still be fixed? I would guess if a cylinder is cracked (let alone with a hole in it) then the entire block is junk. Thanks for any input!

IDK what brand of sleeve was used, but guys at the Arnold Motor Supply in Marshalltown sleeved the 348 that I've been slowly assembling. It was a fix for a cylinder that would have required an excessive overbore. The block was dirt cheap, so the $140 it cost to sleeve it was worth it.

I doubt anyone is making off-the-shelf wet sleeves for a W. By the time anyone is getting crazy enough to warrant such a thing, they'd probably just start with a World/BMP/whatever-its-called-now block.

...Lamar told me its not a good idea to put sleeves in adjoining cylinders as it would lift the deck.

There's a photo floating around of a 409 that was in the process of having 5 (?) cylinder being sleeved at LWA. It looked like a porcupine.
 

Skip FIx

Well Known Member
A motor I bought back in the 70s was told it had a water leak because of a head gasket /warped cylinder head. He had it milled(and that was obvious on tear down. Culprit was a leaking sleeve near the bottom -trashed the motor. Did get a Z-11 water pump out of the deal and an extra set of 690s (that were milled). Barry from Bill's Speed and Sport in Irving he ran in his roadster.
 

GasNOil

Well Known Member
I just recently did all eight on a 656 block that was already .060 over and didn't sonic very well. We used Darton sleeves and stepped the bottoms of the cylinders. It was a long and *boring* process to say the least. It'll be standard bore with a 4" stroke at some point.
 

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