The Header Question raises its ugly head again!

[Simon]

Hi All,
I'm a proud owner of a 59 Beliar - Australian built - and would like to lean on your header expertise.
With a stroked 348 I am looking at my options of headers yet run into issues due to the fact that my car is Right Hand Drive.
My option are;
1. Doug's Headers Metallic Ceramic Coated Headers 1958-1964 Big Block Chevy 348-409 1-3/4" -2" Tube Diameter. Part Number: 776-D309Y advertised on JEGS60
2. Hooker Headers Super Comp Headers 265-400 Small Block Chevy. Part Number: 520-2103-1 advertised on JEGS60 (not to clear if this fits the W motor!).
3. Sanderson CC409 shorty header for Chevrolet 348/409 "W" big block engines. Advertised on own site. (tend to prefer these as they look to fit with clearance).
With the motor dynoed at 500HP/Tq at the flywheel I don't want to kill to much with the header I choose but also need to keep clearances. At least 7/16 clearance from everything.
Understand questions on headers have been done to death so appreciate your response.
Simon.

 

[Don Jacks]

Most of Dougs headers are of the tri-y design so if your cam was ground for the 4-7 swap, if so that's out.Number 2 on your list IS for a small block,so they're out.I'm having a problem understanding how swapping the steering linkage from one side of the car to the other is going to matter,but I may not have a clear under standing,pictures would help.Block headers will really hurt a 500 horse engines out put.I'd suggest that you get with Wilson headers in Az for a set of their 1 7/8 or 2 inch tube headers.

 

[DonSSDD]

The wilsons are the best fit for left drive and if there are fit issues with right drive, might be easier to modify as needed. Which side is your starter on? Pics of both sides from a car with a V8 would help.

 

[Don Jacks]

Gm never made the starter on the driver's side of any W or any other engine that I can remember,all were on the passenger side so that wouldn't be any issue.If the steering box in in about the same area,up next to the radiator,and just switched sides ,I don't see what the problem would be.What am I missing?

 

[Simon]

G'day Dons, thanks for your replies.
Don J thanks for clearing up that the second option is out as well block headers. I have got a set of Wilson 2 inch primary pipes fitted and have run into problems. Its a whole lot more than just the pipes so will run you through what I am playing with.
I love the look and performance appeal of the Wilson header so took the chance to import.
The Wilson slots in great but does not meet the min 7/16th clearance I need to get the car registered in this country (been un-registered since I found it in a farmers paddock for the last 30 years).
I also have installed Airride suspension which has complicated problems especially with the steering shaft travel clearance under the forward L/H side primary pipe and upper control arm cross shaft.
My fix so far is as follows;
Raise the engine on its mounts 1/8th inch which improved clearance all round on the Wilson pipes especially on the R/H side. Engine now sits 5 degrees tail down.
L/H side will need the brake line moved up on top of chassis rail - no big problem. (remember brake master is on the R/H side).
The engine lift also helps the primaries clearing the lower control arm aft section and chassis with the clearances I need.
As the Airide is American built so the upper control arm is biased for L/H drive cars. See attached. I will swap this out for the original Australian cross shaft (thanks George from Airide for stating the obvious - which I missed). Regardless the steering shaft will still rub/be to close to the fwd L/H side primary.
At the moment I have decided to trim 7/16th off the primary tubes to header plate to bring the header in closer to the engine. I have discovered so far this nearly worked except that the No 1 L/H side primary tube has moved aft to far to fit into the header plate. I am at the stage of rebuilding the whole header therefore thought I would touch base with the 348/409 crowd to see if I had other options.
So far I get the feeling that I am building a set of modified headers.
Note: The 1 & 7/8 primary pipe Wilson option could come close (with a little denting modification) but I am just weighing up ALL options first.
Appreciate your insight.
Simon.

 

[63 dream'n]

G'day Dons, thanks for your replies.
Don J thanks for clearing up that the second option is out as well block headers. I have got a set of Wilson 2 inch primary pipes fitted and have run into problems. Its a whole lot more than just the pipes so will run you through what I am playing with.
I love the look and performance appeal of the Wilson header so took the chance to import.
The Wilson slots in great but does not meet the min 7/16th clearance I need to get the car registered in this country (been un-registered since I found it in a farmers paddock for the last 30 years).
I also have installed Airride suspension which has complicated problems especially with the steering shaft travel clearance under the forward L/H side primary pipe and upper control arm cross shaft.
My fix so far is as follows;
Raise the engine on its mounts 1/8th inch which improved clearance all round on the Wilson pipes especially on the R/H side. Engine now sits 5 degrees tail down.
L/H side will need the brake line moved up on top of chassis rail - no big problem. (remember brake master is on the R/H side).
The engine lift also helps the primaries clearing the lower control arm aft section and chassis with the clearances I need.
As the Airide is American built so the upper control arm is biased for L/H drive cars. See attached. I will swap this out for the original Australian cross shaft (thanks George from Airide for stating the obvious - which I missed). Regardless the steering shaft will still rub/be to close to the fwd L/H side primary.
At the moment I have decided to trim 7/16th off the primary tubes to header plate to bring the header in closer to the engine. I have discovered so far this nearly worked except that the No 1 L/H side primary tube has moved aft to far to fit into the header plate. I am at the stage of rebuilding the whole header therefore thought I would touch base with the 348/409 crowd to see if I had other options.
So far I get the feeling that I am building a set of modified headers.
Note: The 1 & 7/8 primary pipe Wilson option could come close (with a little denting modification) but I am just weighing up ALL options first.
Appreciate your insight.
Simon.

I understand what you’re saying.... you’re just checking your options.... but depending on your build..... out of a 348 it would have to be pretty stout to go to the 2 inch tube ....... have you done head porting ......I think Depending on your performance level...... the smaller tube diameter might actually make the motor perform better.....And on your intended usage Street driven....... just track........ like you say ......it would better with your space considerations

 

[1958 delivery]

"The Wilson slots in great but does not meet the min 7/16th clearance I need to get the car registered in this country"

Man, I've seen so much total BS coming from car registration in other countries. I think this has something to do with "safety" If so, said countries should entirely outlaw motor vehicles since they are dangerous regardless

 

[Simon]

"The Wilson slots in great but does not meet the min 7/16th clearance I need to get the car registered in this country"

Man, I've seen so much total BS coming from car registration in other countries. I think this has something to do with "safety" If so, said countries should entirely outlaw motor vehicles since they are dangerous regardless

Hi Mike, They are very very strict over here but if the car is already registered it is quite easy to make mods without the Law getting on your back. The after market products you have available in the USA makes me envious of what you can achieve in a car build - however that said there is nothing like a challenge.

 

[Simon]

Most of Dougs headers are of the tri-y design so if your cam was ground for the 4-7 swap, if so that's out.Number 2 on your list IS for a small block,so they're out.I'm having a problem understanding how swapping the steering linkage from one side of the car to the other is going to matter,but I may not have a clear under standing,pictures would help.Block headers will really hurt a 500 horse engines out put.I'd suggest that you get with Wilson headers in Az for a set of their 1 7/8 or 2 inch tube headers.

Hi Don, See attached Cam Spec's.

 

[Simon]

I understand what you’re saying.... you’re just checking your options.... but depending on your build..... out of a 348 it would have to be pretty stout to go to the 2 inch tube ....... have you done head porting ......I think Depending on your performance level...... the smaller tube diameter might actually make the motor perform better.....And on your intended usage Street driven....... just track........ like you say ......it would better with your space considerations

Hi Keith, Intention is to have a strong street car that may get a look at a drag strip a few times - and keep the body close to factory. I have the Edelbrock Heads with no porting carried out. The 1 & 7/8 Wilson Header may be the way to go - I will get in contact to see if he is making them for the 59. Maybe just have them tack welded together for final fitment over here.

 

[Don Jacks]

Your cam card says nothing about a 4-7 swap.On this build,either one would work,but my thoughts lean toward the 1 7/8 as more fitting the power band for that cam.

 

[409newby]

Could you get it registered with exhaust manifolds then switch to headers? Just a thought.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

"The Wilson slots in great but does not meet the min 7/16th clearance I need to get the car registered in this country"

Man, I've seen so much total BS coming from car registration in other countries. I think this has something to do with "safety" If so, said countries should entirely outlaw motor vehicles since they are dangerous regardless

My classic car dealership sends cars all over the world and some countries are absolutely absurd. I'm trying to remember but I think France is the worst if I remember right. I'm port tax is nuts.
The 7/16 rule is arbitrary because a little more or less won't matter. They held their finger up in the air and said: "about that much space". If you were a rich fellow I'd tell you to take them to court and argue that: "exhaust manifolds are designed and tuned to ensure the best economy/efficiency/emissions of the internal combustion engine and modifying that part, in this specific case, to meet such an arbitrary standard would eliminate your ability to help fight the established scientific link between greenhouse gas emissions and the risk of climate change. Instruments are tuned to sound and perform more efficiently than the factory pieces it was made to replace...." It would seem there is a significant push for cleaner emissions where you are so you might have a shot. LOL!

 

[61BUBBLE348]

Could you get it registered with exhaust manifolds then switch to headers? Just a thought.

That's what I would do, there is more than 1 way of skinning a cat.

 

[Simon]

That's what I would do, there is more than 1 way of skinning a cat.

Definitely an option but I'll have a crack at sorting it now. The 59 is a full rebuild having air-ride, disc brakes, 6 cylinder to the 348 so I've placed a few challengers in front of me. So far Ive been able to work around them. Just sent an email to Wilsons to ask about the 1&7/8 set.

 

[DonSSDD]

Get a set of truck 348 cheap manifolds shipped over with the wilsons, then you can go either way if you still have issues. Somebody on here will have a set of manifolds and they could ship them to Wilson’s?

 

[boxerdog]

Can these inspectors be bribed or otherwise persuaded to see things differently?

 

[409newby]

Can these inspectors be bribed or otherwise persuaded to see things differently?

Dave you've been in California tooooo long.

 

[boxerdog]

You can't say much Pat, look at Oregon! But you are right.

 

[409newby]

Yeah Oregon is as corupt as any thats why we moved to central Oregon pretty much all conservative here our little town even had a BLM protest Sat lots of cops and counter protesters they did'nt cause any problems