Transmission issue....

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MoboMac

Well Known Member
#1
OK......I purchased a 61 last month......from a board member here......Long distance/cross country/sight unseen...but lots of communication...and pictures.

Car was advertised.....with a date correct T-10 .......and that info is also on the bill of sale....

It arrived here last week........I went underneath yesterday..........and discovered a Saginaw 4 speed....

All things considered......I'm pretty happy with the car......and the price I paid........but NOT happy about the wrong transmission.....

After advising the seller,....... he said he was told it was a T-10....by previous owner....and it seemed to work well........

In my book....a Saginaw from the 70's.........and a date correct 61 T-10........are in a different league.......

I'm thinking I should be looking for some financial compensation.......

Thoughts?
 

Tom Kochtanek

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 9
#3
Did it have the "spaghetti shifter" on it?

Saginaws were most likely used in the 250/300 horse 327s. Might not stand up to a strong "W" engine if beaten on.

The "period correct" 1961 four speed is quite a bit more rare and generally has an iron case with an aluminum tail housing.

But then you probably know that.
 

Ishiftem

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
#5
I don’t know who you bought it from but if it was supposed to have a date correct t10 then it should be there. That’s a big item. Maybe the owner didn’t know any better however, it doesn’t matter. You should get some type of compensation. Maybe not the whole cost of replacing the Saginaw with what it was advertised as having but you should get something.
 

MoboMac

Well Known Member
#7
Have you discussed compensation with seller? He might be in agreement.

I indicated to him last nite what I found....and that I was unhappy.
He was apologetic......said he didn't know........I don't dis-believe him........But that still doesn't get me the transmission.........that was supposed to be...in the car...

Thought I'd get some 3rd party opinions.......before asking....
 

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 6
#8
I would say, that if he advertised a transmission as such, the onus is on him should it not be correct. You bought in good faith based on the described item. Try to work something out with him. I've bought many parts from members here and have always had a good experience. Hopefully, you'll do the same, Carmine.
 

Tom Kochtanek

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 9
#10
I'll give you an example of value if that helps, take it for what it's worth.

A usable Saginaw 4 speed from that era is worth maybe $250 while a Borg Warner T-10 is likely to be valued at three to four times that.

Try to find a period correct one (the BW T-10) when you need one and you'll be hard pressed...

Here's an unchecked one that's a bit newer? https://www.ebay.com/itm/borg-warne...237425?hash=item28694b58b1:g:kLEAAOSw2yVbsWm3 but be careful because these were used on F**rds as well (top loaders)

and here's a more realistically priced one for a 1962 (I know you want the '61 version): https://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-3-Bor...169245?hash=item2867ae519d:g:5O8AAOSwqbxZ5jzX
 
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Phil Reed

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 10
#11
The aluminum cast main case T10 was used first in the 1961 Corvette and the 1961 409 full size cars. Very rare. I was fortunate to find just 1 in my career.
Not sure what engine you have in the 61 you just bought but if it is not a 409, the 61 cast case would be correct for your application.
 
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MoboMac

Well Known Member
#12
It's NOT a #'s matching show car....or even CLOSE........but does deserve the transmission that it was advertised with.....in my opinion

I believe the engine makes enough horsepower.....to break just about ANY 4 speed.......but that is not the issue.

I'd prolly be happy with an iron case.....I'm guessing the odds are not good....for finding an aluminum main case unit.......

Wouldn't the iron main case be stronger?
 

Phil Reed

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 10
#13
The cast iron case is stronger. The aluminum case was used on H/Perf engines to save weight, in my opinion. I sold the one I had for $3500 about 10-12 years ago.
Your car originally would have been cast iron case.
 

real61ss

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 8
#14
If you have to purchase a transmission I would suggest you contact Dennis Maroudas, he runs a business called DME, in Forest Hills Ky. they specialize in transmissions, shifters etc. He will build you a transmission, he just built me a T-10 for my 61 Pontiac, he furnished a 61 dated case and the remainder was built from NOS parts. Since your car isn't a matching number car if I were you I would put a Muncie in it. They are stronger and cheaper than the T-10
 

Junky

Well Known Member
#16
When a seller describes something as important as the date code being correct for the car, then it should be. A reputable seller wouldn't think of selling a car based on misinformation. It is incumbent of the seller to properly represent the car properly. My position would be, that he either pays for the correct transmission, or he refunds all monies, including transportation costs to you, and he takes back the car. Paying for the correct part would be the wise thing for him to do, and you would be able to sell the existing transmission to cover your install costs. If it doesn't work out for you, then take your documentation to small claims court. Who knows, we might even see you on Judge Judy!
 

our1962

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
#17
Kajun is also a good source, I used them for the 62 bellhousing.

http://www.kajunjon.com/

If the bill of sale is documented as having the T-10. Then be direct with the seller and provide him a photo of the current transmission in the 61 and he should compensate you something if it's not as stated on the documentation.

Not knowing what you paid for the 61, I don't beleive your going too get back 3500.00, but maybe a 1000.00 if the seller has any digity and respect and made an honest mistake.

And if it was misrepresented and if knew or not. The document states T-10 and you should get 1000.00.

Knowingly misrepresentation is fraud.

I hope you guy's resolve this issue with both parties being happy.

Good luck and post a picture of the 61.
 

MoboMac

Well Known Member
#18
Thanks for everbodys input......

I was thinking I should ask seller for some compensation.....but figured I'd solicit some second opinions.

He was very fair to me during negotiations.......and don't want to play hardball.....

I have run into this before.........some people are not into transmissions.....he said he was going on a previous owners claim...

Me....I guess I'm FUNNY.....The transmission....is the first thing I look at......when I get underneath a new car....if it has a clutch attached to it....

Time to discuss this with the seller.......I will advise outcome...
 

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 6
#20
As I mentioned before, the seller is advertising this car coming a certain way. You bought and paid for this car, based on that. Good faith on your part. Personally, I could care less where he purportedly got his info from. I'm dealing with him; not owners before him. Hate to by cynical, but sounds like he is passing the responsibility, the wrong advertised transmission, onto some one else. You should be compensated somehow. If you went to small claims court with this, you'd have a winner. If he feels cheated by the previous owner, let him debate that with him. I'm optimistic that you can resolve this matter to the satisfaction of both. Keep us posted, Carmine.
 
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