Truck water pump dimensions ( for JED)

[Jim Sullivan]

Here some info on a truck water pump. The water pump weighs about 23.5 pounds plus packaging brings it to about 28 pounds. I'll know for sure tomorrow. The block mounting surface to the face of the hub is approximately 6 1/2". Hopefully the other dimensions are vissible in the photos.

 

[Jim Sullivan]

The hub is 3 1/4" in diameter, which could probably be turned down and new holes drilled if the correct size hub(that fits the shaft) can't be found. The overall height from lower ad hose connection to the top of the hose outlets is 16". The distance from the upper mounting holes to the hub center is approximately 5".

 

[JED]

Thanks, Jim. I'm going to go down to the shop right now and overlay the measurements on my project.

John

 

[JED]

This is what I have now with the stock pump. There is not enough room to put a "puller" electric fan between the pump and the radiator. The pump shaft is in the middle of the height of the radiator, which is where the fan motor also would sit.

This is showing a mock up based upon the dimensions that you sent above. I also put the fan in the background for reference. With the pump shaft raised approx. 12" (as shown in your measurements), it looks like the fan will clear the pump. The pump shaft would be approximately where the ruler is shown. The taper on the pump pulley should miss the fan (although it would be close). I do have some additional space to move the fan down approximately another inch from where it is shown here.


All things considered, I think it is worthwhile to try it. Let's go ahead. As I mentioned earlier, please let me know via PM what the cost is to me, including whatever you want for the pump, shipping and your time.
I appreciate your help.

John

 

[fourzeronine]

Is this car going to have fenders? Why don't you position the radiator to allow use of a mechanical fan? An electric fan doesn't really belong on a hot rod.

 

[JED]

Is this car going to have fenders? Why don't you position the radiator to allow use of a mechanical fan? An electric fan doesn't really belong on a hot rod.

Yes, the car will be a full-fendered '33 Ford roadster and requires the radiator to be in a fixed location for the fenders/grille. See my thread:
"348 in a '33 Roadster" under "Builds and Projects".

Re the electric fan, I have been running one on my '34 coupe for over 45 years without issue if you are concerned about reliability. Re performance as well as appearance, they operate much better on the engine side of the radiator than on the front side. I just don't have the clearance to run an engine-driven fan with the big block and I don't want to have to cut the firewall and move the engine back. This will work great.

 

[JED]

Well, in spite of all the great help provided by Jim, it looks like the use of a truck pump will not solve my pump to radiator clearance problems where i could run a fan on the engine side of the radiator. As noted in the photo, the pump shaft interferes with the electric fan. The interference would only be worse with the pump pulley installed. Even if I machined down (shortened) the pulley shaft, there is not enough clearance with the pulley installed. Using a smaller fan wouldn't work well either because it would only cover less than half of the radiator.

I haven't given up yet, though, and am looking at some other alternatives that would allow me to use a fan on the engine side.

Again, thanks to Jim for all of his help and support.
John

 

[Gofish]

You may have run through this already, but can you get an electric fan in there if you either or 1) cut the fan mount off the water pump shaft, 2) position the electric fan so it’s motor (the thickest part) is offset from the water pump shaft? You might also use two smaller electric fans to help with #2. A pusher on the front would be a last resort. Just some thoughts.

And to the electric fan issue in a hot rod overall, sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

So I have a 16-inch Spal electric fan on my fenderless Model A with a a 348. I really wanted the stock fan, but no way - mostly due to vertical alignment issues. I got the electric fan in there by moving the radiator forward a couple inches and using thought #2. You can sort of disguise the electric fan in a number of ways if it really bothers you. Some good ideas on that from Bobby Greene on the Hokey Ass Message Board.

Don’t forget the fan shroud!


John

 

[409gang]

Well, in spite of all the great help provided by Jim, it looks like the use of a truck pump will not solve my pump to radiator clearance problems where i could run a fan on the engine side of the radiator. As noted in the photo, the pump shaft interferes with the electric fan. The interference would only be worse with the pump pulley installed. Even if I machined down (shortened) the pulley shaft, there is not enough clearance with the pulley installed. Using a smaller fan wouldn't work well either because it would only cover less than half of the radiator.
View attachment 77905
I haven't given up yet, though, and am looking at some other alternatives that would allow me to use a fan on the engine side.

Again, thanks to Jim for all of his help and support.
John

You could use an electric water pump with water inlet block off plates like the photos show, I made a bracket that mounted the pump below the passenger side head. My pump bracket utilizes one bolt hole on the head and the two tapped 7/16" bolt holes on the front of a truck block, these holes are on the front of my car blocks also. The pump I am using has two outlets so I plumbed one to each side of the block. I made a cad drawing of the block off plates and had them cut on a water jet out of 1/2" aluminum, then I had a buddy mill the fins in them. You can also see by the photos I didn't have much clearance either. The main reason I ran an electric water pump is because of my cam driven Hilborn fuel pump. This is just another possibility for minimal clearance, you will have to decide which option is going to work best for you Good Luck. PM me if there is anything I can do to help.

Steve

 

[JED]

You may have run through this already, but can you get an electric fan in there if you either or 1) cut the fan mount off the water pump shaft, 2) position the electric fan so it’s motor (the thickest part) is offset from the water pump shaft?

John: Thanks for the suggestions. As I understand your suggestion, I don't think item 1 would work, because if I cut the fan mount off the water pump shaft, I would also be cutting off the pulley mount and then would not have a way to drive the pump. I will take a look at your second suggestion.

As for the use of an electric fan - I have no problem with that. I have one on my '34 coupe that works fine, but it is on the engine side of the radiator. Due to the way the 33/34 Ford grilles and fenders mount (they are indexed off the radiator), I can't move the radiator forward. I am currently looking at a mechanical fan that has the blades offset back toward the engine that may work with the stock passenger car pump, but I need to order one to check fit.

Thanks for your suggestions.
John

 

[JED]

Steve:
That's a pretty nice setup, but it looks like a lot of money/work. Is that for a street car that will see lots of highway miles or a race car? Also, I am not sure I understand what I am looking at. If the pump is under the passenger head, what is the big snout that extends from the timing cover (aligned about where the cam would be in the block)? It appears that your radiator is a cross-flow unit (much wider than the '33 Ford) - are the 2 fittings on the radiator outlets or one outlet/one inlet? I assume the electric pump inlet is where the "Sharpie" is sitting in the middle photo.

Again, I want to thank everyone for their interest and suggestions.

John

 

[409gang]

Steve:
That's a pretty nice setup, but it looks like a lot of money/work. Is that for a street car that will see lots of highway miles or a race car? Also, I am not sure I understand what I am looking at. If the pump is under the passenger head, what is the big snout that extends from the timing cover (aligned about where the cam would be in the block)? It appears that your radiator is a cross-flow unit (much wider than the '33 Ford) - are the 2 fittings on the radiator outlets or one outlet/one inlet? I assume the electric pump inlet is where the "Sharpie" is sitting in the middle photo.

Again, I want to thank everyone for their interest and suggestions.

John

Its on a race car that will be driven very little on the street (once or twice a year to a local cruise). That thing you are describing as a big snout is a Hilborn fuel pump for mechanical fuel injection, its driven off the camshaft. My radiator is a down flow and the 2 12AN fittings welded into the top tank are for radiator returns coming out of the Hilborn intake which were not plumbed when I took the picture. Lol I can't believe you saw that Sharpie, that fitting is one of the outlets that is now plumbed to the passenger side water pump inlet on the front of the block. On the bottom of the pump is a 16AN fitting that is the inlet and goes to the bottom tank. Yes building a race car is not a inexpensive venture, it is a love!

Steve

 

[Don Jacks]

Look up a Davies-Craig electric water pump.Aussies to the rescue again! on either a full fender,or a fenderless rod they wouldn't even be visable.

 

[38Chevy]

Many times the v8’s in early (pre 40?) cars and trucks have a problem of the fan being too low and the engine driven fan interfering with the bottom radiator hose. Hence the need for the zips water pump riser for the SBC. Using the truck 409 pump is a novel idea to fix the same situation that may be encountered with the W motors.

 

[JED]

For the conclusion of this story, check out my build page here:
http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/348-in-a-33-roadster.39370/page-3

John