Valve Spring ?

[Quickshift409]

Is it necessary to loosen the rocker arms on the valve springs that are compressed if the engine is not used in the winter. I normally start the 09 about every 2 to 3 weeks during the winter and bring it up to operating temperature. Would that be adequate.
QS409

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Shan, In my opinion, every 2 weeks would be good enough.

 

[jester]

Valves

If your storing it just for the Winter , that should be OK. Long term would be a different story. I don;t start my 09 in the cold weather . The oil gets to thick and I worry about doing more damage then good . I do, however, turn the motor a half rev. at least once a month, by hand. Just they way I do things. Have a great day.

 

[dq409]

I think I would agree with Jester on rotating the engine but would not start it.

In the spring I would remove the distributor and preoil the engine before start up.
I lost a roller lifter last spring on the first start up and then learned this is a common problem.

My machinist recommends syn oil as it will stay in places where regular oil will drain away.
YES you heard me right,,,I am rethinking the syn oil debate and now lean towards using the syn oils.

Regular oil will drain away from all parts after sitting and on start up all those parts will be dry on start up.
The syns will leave a thin coat of protecting film even inside of the bearings.
With any roller part the bearing will run dry on startup and can kill them almost immediately as in my caseand many others.
Some guys will even go as far as removing roller lifters and rockers and store them in a can of oil.

One other thing my machinist has changed his mind on is the start-up procedure.
The old thought was to start your engine and let it idle until it warmed up.
His new thought is to bring up the RPM to 2500-3000 as soon as the engine starts to get oil flowing at a high rate to lube all the parts as fast as possible.
If you think about it this makes sense as the higher RPM will pump the oil in greater volume and pressure and oil will splash from the crank and on the cam better.

JMO,,,dq

 

[jester]

Spring start up

In the Spring I will pull the coil wire and crank the motor until i get good oil pressure on the gauge. My motor starts real quick and I don't want the motor running until I get pressure, That way I'm not hammer the mains and rod bearings when there dry. Just my way of doing it.

 

[dq409]

In the Spring I will pull the coil wire and crank the motor until i get good oil pressure on the gauge. My motor starts real quick and I don't want the motor running until I get pressure, That way I'm not hammer the mains and rod bearings when there dry. Just my way of doing it.

Running or not,,, moving parts are dry,,,

But I would say thats safer then doing nothing,,,dq

 

[jester]

Running or not,,, moving parts are dry,,,

But I would say thats safer then doing nothing,,,dq

You could fill the engine completely with fresh oil the day before you intend to start the motor.
Then drain it down before you crank.
Other than the cost,. any ideas on that ?

 

[skipxt4]

Oil, Oil Everywhere?

Jester: I could be wrong, but this sounds like an invitation for two massive oil leaks. (timing cover seal and rear main seal) You're probably talking 12 or 15 qts. of oil. Under normal operating conditions, these seals don't leak, but adding that much oil you'll definately find out. Just my opinion. Skip

 

[jester]

leaks ?

Leaks, I don't know about that. As long as you don't crank it over there wouldn't be any additional pressure . The oil wouldn't be in there very long. It would soak all the parts down with oil if your worried about dry starts. it's just a thought. I wouldn't do it myself because of the cost factor.

 

[oldskydog]

On the old warbird radial engines on airplanes like mine we install pre-oil pumps. It's a simple matter of installing an electric pump with the inlet fitting from the oil tank and pressure line to the crankcase. Before start I run the pump until I have at least 10 psi pressure before turning it over. It doesn't solve all the problems but it helps. I don't see any problem doing the same thing on our engines other than tapping into the pan for the oil supply. An alternative would be to have a small oil sump tank to feed the pre-oiler but it would require constant refilling and some procedure to keep from overflowing the oil quantity. The way I solved that problem on the airplane is that I also installed a scavenge pump to run after shutdown to pump the oil from the rocker boxes back into the tank. The radial is loose by design and it is really succeptible to hydraulic lock by oil leaking from the rockers back into the cylinders past the guides. That's why you see so much oil on old radials. If it's not leaking oil something's wrong!

 

[Fathead Racing]

Turn the engine over by hand every two week in the winter pull the distributor in the spring and turn the oil pump with a priming tool. I have solid rollers and my ears perked up when DQ said that the roller bearings could go dry. I have always used synthetic oil so that should help. I don't really think it is nesessary to turn the engine over in the winter months, but it's not a bad idea. Either that or you could back off the poly locks and pre lube the engine before start! I may do just that and start with a fresh valve adjust in the spring!

 

[Ronnie Russell]

dq, Can you describe the damage you found? Just one lifter or several?

 

[models916]

Moroso makes one

Moroso makes a pre luber fairly cheap. Attaches to the oil pressure fitting.

 

[dq409]

dq, Can you describe the damage you found? Just one lifter or several?

Ronnie, Haven`t pulled the thing apart yet , but can tell you with out a doubt that I have a bad roller lifter confirmed by the sound it gives.
It will rev with out a noise then on back off sound like a loose lifter.
My machinist says this is a sure sign of a bad roller,, dq


I know,,, get off my fat A** and tear it down,,,,


O,,, and sounds like only one lifter,,,

 

[Quickshift409]

Thanks guys for all the info. One thing for sure, I will change over to that high dollar fake oil.
QS409

 

[tripower]

Well I guess I better get my 2 cents worth . I like to pull the valve covers and the distributor. I have an old distributor that I cut up for a pre prime tool. I chuck that to a drill and turn over the oil pump until I can see the oil coming up to the lifters. It only takes a few minutes and gives you a chance to check your lifters as well. Also I like to drive my stuff so very rarely does it sit for very long but if it does that is the procedure I like to use. Dan

 

[DaveFoster]

accusump?

In oval track racing at the lower level short track divisions such as claimer engine modifieds or any other cost conscience series, a product called Accusump is allowed, they make a one quart model and the more popular two quart model which just T's into the oil pressure gauge line or wherever you want it, very simple installation. It has instant oil pressure for startups by opening a ball valve which gets placed usually within the drivers reach when belted up, this oiling system kicks in anytime oil pressure drops below ten pounds of pressure, the two quart resevoir gets refilled when oil pressure builds up again and when the race is over a driver simply brings the RPM up for a short run and closes the ball valve trapping two quarts of oil under pressure for the next prestart oiling and added lube insurance during cornering which can cause oiling problems with stock stuff or rules that don't allow spending big bucks. This unit cost about two hundred bucks the last time I checked, but that was a while back.

 

[Skip FIx]

Oldskydog-I always wondered on plane going upside down how does the oil sump and pickup work?

 

[oldskydog]

There is a smaller oil tank called... strangely enough... the "inverted oil tank" which has a pickup tube that swivels 360 degrees. Inverted time is limited to the size of the tank. The T-28 is 10 seconds. I have timed it and it is right on. You can hit the stopwatch and at 10 seconds the OP starts to drop. That's just as well since upside down level flight is extremely uncomfortable. It is only a problem when experiencing negative G's. You can be in any position as long as it is under positive G's. Aircraft that are designed for constant inverted level flight have a different system where oil pickup is not a problem.