Very light smoke still there

[Carmine]

I am not tired of hearing about it Carmine, and I bet most if not all are not either. Someone will benefit from this info. I know I have. This is my first 409 and I didn't know those drain holes were 90 degrees. I am going to go out to the garage and look at a pair I have when I get a chance.

Hey Jeff, if you have an old speedo cable, thread it through the oil drain hole. Its interesting to see the turn it makes. Someone in one of these threads mentioned to use this cable. What a great idea. And what really amazed me was this little valley where the holes met. Liquids don't drain uphill on their own without help of some type. The help here being an accumulation of oil in the pocket below the drain hole. I never professed to be intelligent or an engineer, but this design leaves something to be desired. I think its poor at best. I guess they did the best they could. You know what would be interesting is to have an acrylic pair of valve covers. Something you see through. I'd love to see how much oil actually does accumulate in that pocket and on the bottom rail of the head. I'm surprised there aren't more complaints about the bottom of the valve covers leaking. Regardless of my issues, I still love those motors. I would do it all over again and may very well someday. Only this time, I hope to armed with a little more knowledge.

Yeah Mike, that last hole was solid with something. The others required a little pushing, twisting, pulling but I was able to get through. I could hear the cable hitting the metal pan on the bottom of the intake. I did each one several times just to make sure. But that 4th hole didn't want to cooperate. I think collectively it took me about 5 minutes to break through. The cable just didn't want to follow any route. I kept at it and finally. I really thought I would have to take off the intake to find the obstruction. As of now, guess I got lucky. I'll also try and find that posting by Big Jim. I always enjoy reading that stuff , Carmine.

 

[62impala409]

Well, Here ya go with the acrylic valve cover video Carmine! http://www.348-409.com/forum/thread...through-clear-valve-covers.30298/#post-279153

 

[real61ss]

Do you think the oil pump is just pumping too much oil and it is loading the top of the engine faster than it can drain back. I've had that problem with the small block motors in my circle track cars. Sounds primitive but we used to stuff pipe cleaners in the pushrods to limit the flow of oil to the top side.

 

[IMBVSUR?]

Carmine, just grab an old garbage pair of covers and cut the tops out. You can run the engine and depending on your setup, at least at idle, almost no oil will come out, or very little and you can see what is in there. Also the pair is great if you like to do you valve adjustment while running like I do. Actually I have almost always done it that way on the engines that I could.

 

[Carmine]

Good idea Jeff. I have about 5 pair of valve covers that I restored with new paint and decals. Not sure why I felt a need for so many. The guy I bought these from has others in poor shape and I can pick up a pair from him. I can cut them out and take a peek inside. Like you mentioned, they would also be good when adjusting the valves. Oil wouldn't leave the head and go all over the place.

Tommy, its a stock oil pump. Even during warm up it never gets about 50 lbs. of pressure. Might go down to 45 or so while driving along.

That was some video in the above thread. I think I saw it before but forgot about it. Is there a lot of oil movement or what taking place in those valve covers. I would never have expected that much, Carmine.

 

[real61ss]

Carmine,
It's not the pressure but the volume that would put too much oil up top. But it was just a thought, I think you are on track to find the problem soon. I has been interesting, thanks for sharing

 

[MRHP]

When I pulled the 09 apart in my 62, it had pipe cleaners in the pushrods. Funny shit right there. I knew what they were doing, just thought it was odd.

 

[tripower]

What if you pull the other valve cover and see if the oil drains better on that side??
Rick

 

[Carmine]

Dan, I did do that yesterday and here are the results.

Finished buttoning up the motor and checked everything. Cleaned out the tailpipes with a shop towel and started the motor. Pulled it outside and as usual, no signs of smoke. Went for about a 40 minute ride and had a few stop signs along the way. When stopped and the air from behind caught up with me, I didn't smell any burnt oil odor as before. Continued on at various speeds and I know its only my imagination, but the motor appeared to run a tad bit better. Returned home and parked in the driveway with the motor running. The sun was shining perfectly on the rear section. Took a look at the driver side tailpipe and didn't see any smoke. Before it would have been obvious. Changed my angle of observation and I did see a very small wee amount of smoke. The smoke was much lighter in color and not as plentiful as before. Not even close. I shut it off and checked the engine for leaks. Nothing. Thank you Lord. I then checked the tailpipes with a new towel. The passenger side was almost spotless. The driver side had a wee bit of like a black carbon to it. Not much at all. Not even close to the slimy, goopy oil that they both contained a few weeks ago. I let it set for about an hour or so, then started the motor. I didn't see anything from either pipe this time. Pulled it into the garage and checked again. Still no signs of smoke. I looked really good. I think what I saw when I returned, was probably still some residual from the previous problem. Actually, I had expected to see some. I think a few more rides will do it for good. Hope I'm not premature with this, but I have to conclude that the problem was the clogged oil drain holes. I put about another quart of oil into it and will monitor any consumption. That definitely will tell me. I'm going to give things a rest for now and just drive it. Maybe later in the week/weekend, I'll put it on the lift and see what is involved in putting the road draft tube back on. From the top, it looks kind of tight. Might have to drop the motor/tranny down some. Not sure.

It was also mentioned in another thread, that possibly the bottom intake pan was obscuring the flow of oil and had to be opened. The info came from a member via the repair manual. I read that this morning myself. I lined up my '61 head with a '61 intake which has the metal pan on the bottom. I'm assuming (bad word) the intake is similar to my 409 intake pan wise. I honestly didn't see anything to open up and furthermore, the exit of the oil drain hole is considerably recessed in the head under a water port. I don't know what could ever stop its flow other then blockage. But then again, maybe I'm confused. I did take some pics which I can post later when the treasury dept. gets home.

Well guys, that's about it. I can't believe this is the 169 thread on this subject matter. You'd think we were performing open heart surgery or building a rocket. I can't thank everyone enough for their time, effort, and patience in wanting to help me. Some great ideas and suggestions. I enjoy reading each thread. I never discount what someone has offered. Great site. Great members. You guys are the best. Thank you all very much, , Carmine.

 

[1958 delivery]

If it is cleared up I wouldn't change the PCV, PCV is good for evac/lower crankcase pressure the fumes out of the engine.

 

[skipxt4]

Well, you know, Carmine, we are sort of working on a rocket.

 

[Don Jacks]

If it is cleared up I wouldn't change the PCV, PCV is good for evac/lower crankcase pressure the fumes out of the engine.

 

[Carmine]

Well, you know, Carmine, we are sort of working on a rocket.

Yeah, it does move along fairly well. I could drive that car all day and not get bored.

Maybe I will leave the present PCV intact. If its not broken, why try and fix it, Carmine

 

[tripower]

Carmine,
Did you remove the pan under the intake and clean it? If you did not it will most likely be caked with crud.

 

[Carmine]

Carmine,
Did you remove the pan under the intake and clean it? If you did not it will most likely be caked with crud.

No, I didn't clean it. Ignorance is no excuse, but I didn't know I was suppose to do that. The intake was in very nice shape and I went over it with a wire wheel and sandpaper. The pan didn't have any surface rust at all. I saw those rivets that attached the pan to the intake and thought maybe it wasn't meant to be taken apart. They looked pretty serious to me. It was much later that I saw replacement rivets and learned that it in fact can be removed. I hope I never have to take it off, but if I do, I definitely will take it apart and clean it, Carmine.

 

[blkblk63ss]

I recently had my intake powder coated. When I picked it up it was wrapped in a cloth cover. It looked very clean, but as I started to look at it and I blew air between the lower plate and intake I was getting grit out. I removed the rivet"s ,able to save them,and if I would have not removed the plate my engine would have suffered bearing failure.Cleaned some previous rust scale off flushed bottom of intake and blew off numerous time"s grit from all crevice"s. Simply installed same rivet"s and peened them.This grit came from the blasting process they do.

 

[62impala409]

PLUS, if the manifold is ever sandblasted, the sand will get stuck in the crud above the pan and destroy your engine as it is flushed out. That can be a nasty situation!!!! The pans can be a pain to remove but it must be done.

 

[skipxt4]

As if Carmine, doesn't have enough to worry about.

 

[Carmine]

I wish I would have known about cleaning it. I would have done that in a heart beat. Hope I don't experience and problems. Must be close to 1000 miles on the motor. Oil is very clean, new looking, Carmine.

 

[1958 delivery]

If the manifold was glass beaded or sand blasted without removing and cleaning then you should do it as soon as possible, like tomorrow. If it wasn't glass beaded or sand blasted then don't worry about it.