What do you think this 409 is worth?

[62bubble]

Just came across this 409 eng. that a friend told me about. Looked at it today and here is a breakdown on most of the numbers.....Block #3857656 is a 1965 block. Front Boss T1201 JE , Built Dec 64. JE=1965 Pass car 340HP. Intake-3814881=1964 2X4 Aluminum. Heads-3830817=340 HP. Date code on back of block is 308, =Nov 8 1964. Don't know what the Oil Pan if from, has drain plug coming out the left side of the pan. THe pan has two ribs down the side and meets up with the drain plug. The eng is presently on a stand and is painted blue, (YUK). Has two carter carbs on the 409/425 HP ;intake. I did not check the carbs at this time. The guy tells me that he got it from a guy who told him it had been rebuild. No exhaust manifolds on the eng. Has the water pump and deep grove pulleys attached. Eng is not running at this time. The block is not cracked along the sides below the heads...Don,t know if was rebuilt or not, and if it was , by the looks of the non orig add on parts, who knows... Assuming that it is not seized , and really was rebuilt, I would like to hear what you guys that really know these engines would think it is worth, as I have no idea. Any input of comments are welcome. Thanks Mike

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

It seems every time I purchase some one else's project/engine that has been "rebuilt" it fails in some fashion or another to meet the standards needed for proper performance/assembly.

For example, James and I picked up a fitted truck block with standard crank/rods and new KB-Icon pistons. Saw the receipt from a supposedly reputable builder in Tulsa. After sitting aside for a year or two, James popped the pan to find one of the con rods flipped the wrong way. If someone else were to finished putting this together with cylinder heads and an intake and fired it up, how long do you think that would have lasted?

Another supposed build was rebuilt, but they put a cam in that had tooooo much lift and the valves kissed the pistons, so they stopped but kept it buttoned up. Years later it ends up at my place, but needing a total rebuild.

So I guess what I'm saying is plan on tearing it down and inspecting everything then putting it back together.

Aside from that advise (FWIW) you appear to have a 1965 passenger block (good). The heads are the low profile 340 horse variety and that 881 intake is made to fit the larger port heads, so the guy must have either shaved a few nubs off where is doesn't fasten or he just filled those with blanks.

Does he have an ask price, or are you just making him an offer? I'd start at around $3K and tell him while you trust his judgment, you will have to tear it down and inspect all components (about $500 at your local machine shop).

individual prices would be around:

$1500 - $2000 for the bare block (assuming standard bore or minimal wear)
The pistons and rings are around $750
Crank and rods maybe $300 - $400
oil pan -- not sure
$300 for the 881 intake
Not sure about the carbs, say $200 unless you find out they are 3361s and 3362s.

That ought to get you started in the right direction .

TomK

 

[MRHP]

Buying a pig in a poke. 1500-2500 and hope for the best.

 

[Jim Sullivan]

Just came across this 409 eng. that a friend told me about. Looked at it today and here is a breakdown on most of the numbers.....Block #3857656 is a 1965 block. Front Boss T1201 JE , Built Dec 64. JE=1965 Pass car 340HP. Intake-3814881=1964 2X4 Aluminum. Heads-3830817=340 HP. Date code on back of block is 308, =Nov 8 1964. Don't know what the Oil Pan if from, has drain plug coming out the left side of the pan. THe pan has two ribs down the side and meets up with the drain plug. The eng is presently on a stand and is painted blue, (YUK). Has two carter carbs on the 409/425 HP ;intake. I did not check the carbs at this time. The guy tells me that he got it from a guy who told him it had been rebuild. No exhaust manifolds on the eng. Has the water pump and deep grove pulleys attached. Eng is not running at this time. The block is not cracked along the sides below the heads...Don,t know if was rebuilt or not, and if it was , by the looks of the non orig add on parts, who knows... Assuming that it is not seized , and really was rebuilt, I would like to hear what you guys that really know these engines would think it is worth, as I have no idea. Any input of comments are welcome. Thanks Mike

Kept that one a secret? Wish I had some extra time to tag along with you.

 

[63impalass409]

What Tom said on this especially since the intake is WRONG I would take it apart before I was to try and start it! Did this guy mention intake was wrong or was he saying it's a 425hp motor now because of it. A set of factory correct big valve heads will set you back at least another 1000.00.

 

[62bubble]

Thanks guys for all of your advise. Tom thanks for the input rel. the 881 . The extra intake bolt holes are still there, they were not filed. or cut off. No he did not have an asking price, he was waiting for an offer, and he claims he does not know what the 409's are worth. But he is an old timer and has many tri-fives in his pole barn. I have asked Jim to go over with me to check a few more things out onthe eng, ie. does it turn over, maybe pull a plug or two and have a look inside with the snake light, check out the Carter carbs for number tags...The guy does not know if it was bored or not...

 

[MRHP]

Remember, block damage, improper assembly, and corrosion are not your friend. A crack or two, or some pitting can kill the deal. Don’t overpay! P.S. he thinks he knows what it is worth, but he is way too optimistic.

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

My guess is with those KB-Icon pistons, that it has been bored at one time. If he doesn't know, then it had to be someone else's project, and now you're two step away from knowing any details...

 

[62bubble]

No I told him what all of the numbers were, as my friend stated that this guy didn't know anything about the 409 engines. He now knows that this is not the expensive engine that he th;ought it was. The next visit will tell where he is really coming from.

 

[MRHP]

Glad he is coming back to reality. When they are selling a 409, or 348 for that matter, they want a fortune. Good luck.

 

[Jim Sullivan]

You know Mike, I have that old Hemi in my shed. You might be able to work some kind of a trade with it. I'll give you a good deal on the Hemi, really.

 

[skipxt4]

Where's Monte Hall, when you need him?

 

[62bubble]

Hey Jim, Just returned from a four day getaway. Finally got to see the National Memorial of Flight 93, Shanksville , Pa. Wow, what a moving experience.. I'll give you a call. Maybe I'll take door #1.....

 

[skipxt4]

Good choice, Mike.

 

[62bubble]

Here are the pictures of that 65 engine. Never heard back from the guy who has the engine, but he may call in the future??

 

[MRHP]

Never saw an oil pan like that before. Agricultural application maybe???

 

[1958 delivery]

I ESPECIALLY LIKE THE FUEL LINE AND THE BLUE PAINT.............

 

[skipxt4]

Is it F**d Blue, or Pontiac Blue?

 

[Ishiftem]

Looks like later 70s GM corporate blue. They didn't make a 409 in the late 70s . It's a fake!

 

[Iowa 409 Guy]

Fred Flintstone's rock crusher was painted blue. It wasn't fake.