What is the difference between 348/409 oil pans? Is there a difference between 340hp and 425hp oil pans?

1964SuperStocker

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After banter with Phil on oil pans, I realized I don't know the difference between them. I have a 348 pan that is small and a larger 409 (show cars unit) that is up on my wall ready to be placed on my stroker motor. However, when I put the 348 engine I'm running in my wagon together, it has a completely different oil pan. I'm certain its a factory unit and being much larger than my smaller 348 unit, I assume its a 409 unit. The baffling inside of it is completely different than my new show-cars unit and looks better to my untrained eye. 20190203_111045.jpg20190203_111123.jpg20190203_111200.jpg348  with 409 chevy oil pan off during inspection.jpg
I didn't take a photo of the oil pan on my 348 but the inside baffling looks like this spider looking piece. Does that mean anything? Thanks for any tips on identifying oil pans so myself and others can reference for later.
 

427John

Well Known Member
It seems like pans with factory baffles have beads rolled in them for strength,I know it seems like a weird place to get movement but the baffles apparently flex quite a bit because it is not at all uncommon to see them crack especially when they don't have stiffeners rolled in them.Does your higher capacity pan have the dipstick on the side as the 348 car pan or the side as the 409/348 truck pan?If it is the same side as the 348 car maybe it is for one of the high compression,high lift solid cam motors like a 320,335,350hp motor.If it is on the other side then its probably 409 or truck I think some of the truck pans also had the baffle.
 

1964SuperStocker

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Supporting Member 3
The first 2 pictures are the extra 348 pan I have with the dipstick in the side of the pan. Pretty sure its factory piece based on the baffle inside isn't simple or cheap looking. The second pan is the higher capacity 409 piece I picked up from show cars for my stroker motor which clearly has a simple and cheap baffle inside. The third is an example of what my factory 409 high capacity oil pan looks like inside, I used it and the 409 dripper valve covers on the 348 in my wagon because I knew I'd be pretty hard on the motor. I will likely take the oil pan with the fancy baffle back off of the 348 and put it on my stroker motor. I had considered getting a windage tray set up for my stroker but my motor won't spin over 6000.
 

63 dream'n

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I cannot give you first hand knowledge or information as to differences but I do know that I’ve read where people have put stroker cranks into a 348 and had to so called “massage” the pans with a hammer to give themselves enough room that the crank throws did not make impact with the oil pan
 

1964SuperStocker

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Supporting Member 3
The internals on any factory 348-409 pan are truly horrible. :thumbdown
Compared to what? Must show pictures of what you mean. The factory 409 oil pan I have looks way better than the Chinese made 409 oil pan I bought from show-cars. How are the internals in your opinion truly horrible? This thread is meant to educate. Pictures will help to explain. Thanks!
 
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1964SuperStocker

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I cannot give you first hand knowledge or information as to differences but I do know that I’ve read where people have put stroker cranks into a 348 and had to so called “massage” the pans with a hammer to give themselves enough room that the crank throws did not make impact with the oil pan
Would that be on a 4 inch stroker and a small factory 348 pan? The whole reason I bought the show-cars 409 oil pan was to give me more oil but maybe a 348 pan won't clear. I will have to check that. I can pull a factory 348 pan off the wall and check. I had my counter weights turned down to fit in the block nicely without having to do anything to the block itself for the counter weights.
 
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63 dream'n

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Would that be on a 4 inch stroker and a small factory 348 pan? The whole reason I bought the show-cars 409 oil pan was to give me more oil but maybe a 348 pan won't clear. I will have to check that. I can pull a factory 348 pan off the wall and check. I had my counter weights turned down to fit in the block nicely without having to do anything to the block itself for the counter weights.

http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/348-4-stroke-query.41492/#post-449688
 

Don Jacks

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Supporting Member 3
The clearance issue is from the extended stroke,not the counter weights.If you're going to use a 348 car pan,you'll need to clearance the area in the pan area of number 1 and 2 rod.On my 380 with it's 3.5 inch stroke,the distance needed was about 1/4 inch,easily done with a ball peen hammer.
 

Tim

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The 348 truck blocks (5011) must have anomalies that allow for a lot of things, I put the 409 crank in thinking the counterweights would hit and there’s plenty of room. It’s stroked with BB rods and still no issues. Put the pan on put some gear lube paint down the middle to see if anything hits, took it off and no issues. Just out of curiosity I put the old truck pan on did the same thing and still no issues. Only problem I have with the 65 409 pan is the pick up tube. When I got the pan Ricky sent me the BB pump that fit the pan, gears were scored so I got a new BB pump switched the pick up part and presto all good.
 

427John

Well Known Member
I've heard conflicting stories of 409 crank into 348 block for years,while BBC crank counterweights have a much larger diameter than 348 crank counterweights,it's starting to look like the 409 counterweight diameter is much closer to the 348 than it is to the BBC,close enough that some core shift in some blocks allow it to clear in some blocks and not others.I clearanced a junk 5011 truck block to see if I could get a stock 454 crank with main journals ground to w size to fit without chopping the counterweights,I found that I could get it to fit but the area around the bottom of the rear cylinders was getting paper thin at that point,also the lower support of the distributor shaft had to be clearanced a bit.My conclusion was that a block could be clearanced if the rear 454 crank counterweight only was chopped,but then that brings up the question of can the crank be balanced with the rear counterweight being smaller diameter.Also the pan rail in the area of the rear full size counterweight needed clearancing but not an excessive amount.I drilled holes in all the areas I had to clearance to see how thin it was getting,except in the 1 area where it got paper thin the rest were all at least 1/8-3/16" thick.I think the 454 crank could be used at full size if the block were filled at least a 1/4".
 

Don Jacks

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Neither did my 409 crank/6.385 rodded 348[.030 over 59 5011 block].As posted above,the 348 car pan did.The 348/409 truck oil pans had the same oil capacity as the hp car pans did,6 qts. About the only difference between the truck and car pans was the location of the drain plug.
 

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
I've heard conflicting stories of 409 crank into 348 block for years,while BBC crank counterweights have a much larger diameter than 348 crank counterweights,it's starting to look like the 409 counterweight diameter is much closer to the 348 than it is to the BBC,close enough that some core shift in some blocks allow it to clear in some blocks and not others.I clearanced a junk 5011 truck block to see if I could get a stock 454 crank with main journals ground to w size to fit without chopping the counterweights,I found that I could get it to fit but the area around the bottom of the rear cylinders was getting paper thin at that point,also the lower support of the distributor shaft had to be clearanced a bit.My conclusion was that a block could be clearanced if the rear 454 crank counterweight only was chopped,but then that brings up the question of can the crank be balanced with the rear counterweight being smaller diameter.Also the pan rail in the area of the rear full size counterweight needed clearancing but not an excessive amount.I drilled holes in all the areas I had to clearance to see how thin it was getting,except in the 1 area where it got paper thin the rest were all at least 1/8-3/16" thick.I think the 454 crank could be used at full size if the block were filled at least a 1/4".
Why would you ever want to modify a block to fit a "pennies on the dollar" crankshaft? If I decide I need to fit a larger tire on a car, I don't get the torch out to make the wheel well bigger before I let a little air out of the tire and flex the axle first. Small/cheap parts that they made millions of should always be modified first. To modify the foundation of a home to fit around a flower is to forget one can simply dig up the flower to move it anywhere in the world. :dunno2 I can't create a logic that fits this situation. :scratch
 

Gofish

Well Known Member
Neither did my 409 crank/6.385 rodded 348[.030 over 59 5011 block].As posted above,the 348 car pan did.The 348/409 truck oil pans had the same oil capacity as the hp car pans did,6 qts. About the only difference between the truck and car pans was the location of the drain plug.

Don, where are the drain plugs in the car vs. truck pans?
 
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