Wrecker 350 runs! (but no oil to rockers!!)

[bobs409]

Good news is, it runs! Bad new is no oil to top of engine.

I ran it about 30 seconds and shut down due to clattering of rockers that didn't stop. Pulled covers and found no oil. I squirted oil on all moving parts and put valve covers back on and ran again. Getting 30 lbs of pressure at 2,000 rpms but after running it a good minute or longer, still no oil. I decided to stop and ask the experts.

I oil primed it before starting it using an old distributor and a priming tool and got 40 lbs cold. (later after running it dropped to 30 as mentioned above) This is the 3rd engine I've done and I never had any luck getting oil to come out of push rods using just a drill so I didn't even bother trying this time. I just ran it for about 2 minutes and rotated engine a few turns and let it at that.

I Googled this problem and it seems to be common enough however there seems to be many answers or replies given too. One guy said it took 4 minutes of running until oil came to the top. I'm afraid to run that long unless you guys say it's ok.

This engine is all stock and I'm using a new stock type oil pump. When I assembled the engine, I ran pump with drill until oil came up though all the lifters so I know it's getting that far. (or it was last year anyway!) Took a few minutes but I watched the oil start to flow from the back ones to the front. (same as the 454's I did)

Been running a bad streak lately. Was going to do the fireup yesterday, put 2.5 gallons of gas in tank and THEN noticed it running out from the bottom of the rocker panel!!! Didn't leak when it was out. !@#@! That was it, I put the fire up on hold, BAD OMEN and just wasn't feeling it after that mess. Later I thought I'd prime the oil a bit and quickly found the oil line was broken so shooting oil came from that! (mess) Now today I have this problem...

I feel like I'm losin' my mojo.

HELP!!!

 

[62impala409]

If the valve clearance is set correctly, all the lifters are getting oil, the oil SHOULD be flowing up the push rods to the rockers. Are the push rods plugged? They can't all be plugged. Leo

 

[bobs409]

All new pushrods so I don't expect any to be clogged. Maybe I should reset the valve clearance again just to be sure I have it right. If too loose, I guess it might not flow up through push rod? Seems to run good though.

 

[Don Jacks]

No,Bob,too tight can often cause a problem,now since it primed thru the lifters,I'd suggest pulling the dist.and pre-oil with the covers off.If she's showing 30 psi at idle,the bottom end is getting oil,b ut I dont think Icould stand 4 minutes unless I was standing there with a squirt gun.

 

[Ishiftem]

Yeah, I wouldn't run it till you have oil to all the rockers. 30 psi is enough to get the oil there. Last one I did with hydraulic lifters wasn"t getting oil either. Turned out the msd priming tool I was using wasn't down far enough. Adjusted the collar and had oil to most of the rockers. The rest I had to remove the rockers on the ones not getting oil and tap on the pushrods with a nylon dead blow hammer while priming and then they started squirting.

 

[bobs409]

Yeah I think tomorrow I'll try priming the oil for a long time. I'm a bit skeptical though, it should have had oil after running at 2K which would have really spun that oil pump. I might redo the valve setting just for peace of mind too.

What do you guys recommend for the setting on these hydraulic valves? My one book says a full turn when push rod just turns with your fingers but I went 1/2 instead. Did so from past experience with the 454's. A full turn was too much.

 

[MRHP]

1/2 turn should be fine. Did you put the galley plugs in behind the cam gear? Either 2 or 3 of them. I can't remember. That would let you oil the bottom end but not the top. I hope you did.

 

[bobs409]

Yes there were 3 of them.

 

[oldskydog]

Just out of curiousity, did you fill the lifters before installing? Not supposed to be necessary as they are self priming and can cause problems on startup.

From Crane:
"It is not necessary to “pre-pump” hydraulic lifters full of engine oil prior to installation and valve adjustment. It is actually undesirable to do so as the “pumped up” lifters will cause the valves to open during the adjustment process, rather than positioning the lifter plunger in its operating position as it is supposed to do."

 

[bobs409]

No I just coated them with moly lube and dropped them in same as I did with the 454's I did. Once all in, I spun the pump until oil got to all and it did starting at the back and worked it's way forward. Should be no problem in that area anyway.

 

[DonSSDD]

How fast do you spin the pump- I use a 3000RPM drill.

Don

 

[bobs409]

Don, I don't know how fast it was with the drill but should have oil when the engine was running at 2,000 rpms.

 

[bobs409]

I don't know what's more frustrating! This problem or reading all the hits from Google on this that have no follow ups! I'm finding pages and pages of people with this same problem, all with a few replies but none seem to have an answer!@ Nobody ever comes back and says, "Hey, I found the problem and here is what is was!"

So.... Here's what I'm thinking. (uh oh) Maybe the valves aren't set right (too tight?) and not allowing the lifters to pump up with the priming tool. I'm going to back off all the rockers and prime the bejesus out of it! (hoping I can see down to the front lifters for oil but probably can't)

Might go buy a big a$$ed drill for the occasion too. Will also verify that all push rods have a hole going through.

 

[oldskydog]

I remember having a similar problem once, some rockers got oil and some didn't. If I remember correctly, backed off the rockers a little and oil finally started flowing. I'm thinking if the plunger is too far down, you're not getting the pumping action needed to push the oil up the tube. Of course, if it pumps up hard, the valve won't close all the way. That's the issue with pre-filling new lifters. Seems unlikely though, since you say it runs OK.
Theoretically, you need about 40 psi to pre-oil properly and you're not likely to get that with a drill. Might just take a while, but if you got oil out of the lifters and the pushrods are clear, there's no reason other than insufficient pressure, to not get oil to the rockers.

 

[chevymusclecars]

Bob

Since you have oil pressure I will make a suggestion. Oil the rocker arms, start the engine and back the adjusting nut to allow them to clatter and then slowly adjust them to where they are just stopping the clicking. My guess is that you will get oil to them once they are somewhere close to being adjusted correctly.

Bill

 

[bobs409]

Well, just got back in from major wrecker surgery! I decided to start fresh and pull the distributor and all rocker arms, lube all and reset those valves again. I was able to look down and see a few lifters while running the primer but couldn't really say I saw oil coming up. (everything was oily and some puddling in the low areas) Certainly not enough to come up the pushrods. I checked each btw and all are open.

I decided to just put lubriplate on all moving parts, button it up and break the cam in. Figured with the lubriplate on there, it should be good for a few minutes at least. (or blow up and then I could really start fresh!) :eek

Success! I took the cap off the valve cover with it running and I could see a steady drip off the rocker. I broke the cam in for 15 minutes at 2K rpms. Engine sounds real good.

No valve train noise but think my flywheel is hitting a pan so will investigate that later.

I'm not terribly impressed with the oil pressure reading while hot but it is a stock unit. Cold with the drill I got a steady 40 but when running and fully hot, it was about 19 at 2K. The rule is 1lb for every 1000 rpms so I guess I'm sort of ok.

On a very good note, not a single drop of smoke from the exhaust the entire time! Usually they smoke a bit but not this one.

So another milestone passed... Better get started on that wrecker build thread update now.

 

[Last 60]

Bob, I am not an engine guru by any means, but 19lbs. at two grand would be a might iffy for me. Just my opinion.

Lonnie

 

[Don Jacks]

Why not put a mechanical gauge on it just for a test? Your factory gauge may be off,and congrats oon another good engine job!

 

[bobs409]

Don, that is with a mechanical guage. I just tried another one I have and it read the same. Both were Sunpro gauges.

I lowered the idle to around 600-700 and the oil pressure dropped to match it. (6-7 lbs) Rev it up and the oil goes up to match.

Not sure why. I know the bearing clearances were all good. Should have put a high volume pump in I guess. ???

On a good note, I found the culprit making the noise. It was the flywheel cover hitting the crank flange. I also fixed some tapping/knocking sounds that were caused by the exhaust manifolds. Sounds good now, fires right up and idles nice.

Got any magic cures to raise oil pressure without major tear down???

 

[Don Jacks]

NOPE,sorry,but at least that pan is easy to pull.That engine shouldnt idle below 25 psi hot.I dont care what the shop manual says.