And when he took it to the Hot Rod Reunion at Bakersfield, his first pass, all the sand blasting sand came pouring out of the rocker panels!!!!!! Boy the track crew were pissed!!!!!! As I remember, took about 15 minutes to get it all cleaned up!!!!!! Hayden, Doug, Ken Walsh and Tom Jacobson and I were all there!!!!! So was Rusty Symmes if I'm remembering right. Roger had Ken driving the car.
Z11 crank
- Thread starter Barry Taylor
- Start date
Yes. I believe CK Spurlock told me. I had one, don't remember if it was eBay or what, but Tom Jacobson ended up with it.
Yes, more than likely the one he got with the engine, because the block and lower end was a 90 degree 427 short block I believe, World Block.
Novel idea, but don’t promote it as a real MM with the only 2x4 intake made by Chev.
All from Roger Sortino’s mind.
I can remember back to when the car was first built, reading an article where they had stated .....his idea, that the build was....... what if Chevrolet hadn’t posted the non-Racing edict....... and the mystery motor would’ve ended up on the drag strip .......as well as Daytona
Skip FIx
Well Known Member
"Very obvious that intake manifold technology had a way to go back then. Cyls#1 and 7 have a very noticeable 90 degree turn "
I want to think I read somewhere the engineers felt the 90 created tubulence to keep fule droplets in suspension.
I have a welded stroker crank I bought from Joe Reith in S CA when he closed his shop just to help him out. I pesonally would just buy a new one or get a custom billet one made if I needed specific stoke main, counterweight size. Someone need a weldes stroker I think it is either a 18/ or 1/4.
I want to think I read somewhere the engineers felt the 90 created tubulence to keep fule droplets in suspension.
I have a welded stroker crank I bought from Joe Reith in S CA when he closed his shop just to help him out. I pesonally would just buy a new one or get a custom billet one made if I needed specific stoke main, counterweight size. Someone need a weldes stroker I think it is either a 18/ or 1/4.
Just a few months back I was browsing a major crankshaft manufacturer’s online catalog and noticed they actually offer a W-Motor 3.650 stroke crankshaft so there you go! Embarrassingly enough, I can’t remember who it was and haven’t been able to find it again today!
I agree!
I was working for a Chevy dealership when it happened. I could not believe it!!
The MM was still a mystery back then, Hot Rod had an article, but still remained a mystery.
I personally thought about trying to get one to drag race with, but even the NASCAR guys were bailing out with “no parts from Chevy”.
I was having problems getting Z-11 stuff, much less parts for an engine they only made about 25-30.
But now I have one and in many ways it’s like 1963 all over again.
If it breaks there are “no parts from Chevy”.
Greg Reimer
Well Known Member
If the square turns in the intake enhanced atomization of fuel from droplet form to a suspended mix of vapors, the big block Chevy 396 to 454 would have had a manifold like that. It didn't feature the 90 degree port directional changes that its predecessors did. They never really explained themselves on the earlier thinking regarding intake manifold design, but it was a satisfactory piece of technology along the way. It may have been easier to cast up the intake at the foundry by curving the runners in a more direct fashion. The dyno and the drag strip would have been the two places to prove this.
Skip FIx
Well Known Member
I think some of the early SBC aluminum manifolds also had that 90 didn't they? But then you have a dead space eddy in the corner of the 90.
Looking at the port entrance and the long short turn radius on 690 heads you can see why the raised port Z-11s made more HP. Intake directions flow into the flat floor not at the back of the valve and throat.
Looking at the port entrance and the long short turn radius on 690 heads you can see why the raised port Z-11s made more HP. Intake directions flow into the flat floor not at the back of the valve and throat.
Greg Reimer
Well Known Member
When I worked for L A County Mechanical Department in the mid '80's, we had a supervisor in the paint shop that was a 409 guy, and he set out to build the ultimate 409. He had a buddy who was an absolute genius wizard who could build anything his mind could imagine. That was a lot. He had a flow bench, so he flowed a 690 head and came up with several conclusions pertinate to W motors. One fact was that the intake port entry was way too low. The bottom of the port didn't flow at all. He built up the port floor with clay and found out that it didn't affect the flow numbers. He kept adding clay until it began to restrict flow, and by then, the port was about a third full.He then turned his attention to raising the roof of the port and rechecking his numbers, that is when improvement started showing. With approval of my friend, he started experimenting on the head, and he built the roof of the port up until it was flush with the valve cover flange, then he removed the clay and welded in the floor to raise it to the point that the clay took him. There's no water passage over the top of the intake port, so that gave him some more leeway. He then did all four ports the same way, and had a 409 head that would outflow a lot of other performance motors. Next thing he did was to turn his attention to the exhausts. he found a lot of power by building up, raising, and straightening the center pair of exhaust ports, then straightening and raising the port roof on the outer exhausts. About this time, one of our other Club members had a cracked Z-11 head that was fairly original, so Ron, the wizard, borrowed it just to flow it in its OEM configuration.He said that whoever designed that head really knew what he was doing, and that it was a beautiful job redesigning that head. Of course, it was Zora Arkus Duntov behind it. He cleaned up and repaired the head for the other member in return for letting him use it for a baseline comparison. There was probably well over 100 horsepower difference between the Z head and the 690. They built a set of headers for the engine with the new port configuration, all four ports were on the same centerline since the inner pair had been raised so much. They also made a sheet metal intake starting with a nasty old 409 intake that had a broken plenum.Off that all came, the bottom third was filled in, the side flanges were left on with the top of the port removed, then the rectangular cross section aluminum tubing started getting fitted. He made an air box that had the carbs spaced further apart front to rear so that something other than an AFB could be used, and it resembled a current for that era Pro Stock intake. They also had to come up with intake gaskets, but Ron the wizard knew someone, he came over, made a pattern, then came back later with some intake side gaskets. These two guys actually assembled the engine, ran it in, and ran it on a dyno up at a facility in Lancaster,Ca. where they lived. I don't remember the actual bore and stroke or what cam they used, but it was over 600 horsepower back around 1990 or so. Certainly, better and more powerful 409's have been built since then, aftermarket heads and intakes have come along, as well as blocks and stuff, so it would have been easier to duplicate these efforts, but none of that stuff was available then. I still wonder what ever became of the Z-11 head they used as a comparison sample. I'm sure it went someplace nice.
Greg Reimer
Well Known Member
Another thing that Jay the paint shop supervisor did-- we had to replace the intake gasket (the stamped steel one) on a Dodge truck with a 440. Jay saw the dirty old intake gasket on a work bench and asked if he could have it because he got an idea. Seems that a 409 hi po intake gasket's ports fall into place almost perfectly on the Mopar manifold. He speculated about finding a 383 tunnel ram (the 440 was too wide of an engine), and constructing a 409 tunnel ram out of it all, welding the 383 intake runners to the top of a 409 intake after the 409 intake was milled off leaving the front portion between the water passage, the rear area where the distributor mounted, and the two sides. Not sure how far he got with all that, he sold the big motor for a bunch of money, the '62 Bel Air 2 door post car he had, and moved to Washington State where he retired. I'm sure he's doing well, he always did, but I haven't heard from him in 15 years or so.
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Sounds like what Dave Mills did.
I am not sure is this it .........
Greg Reimer
Well Known Member
That would do very well. Now, if you had Z-11 heads and that manifold, you wouldn't believe the horsepower increase!! Lots of nice little touches on that motor.
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That was a good read Mr. Greg!!!!
I’ve never seen the adaptors for a SB water pump either that’s clever
I’ve never seen the adaptors for a SB water pump either that’s clever
Biscayne Stocker
Active Member
Yes you can offset grind a crank .015. that will get your 3.65 stroke. NHRA stock class guys do it all the time.