I was hoping someone could help me. I've installed a new Isky cam in my 348, and the new timing gear that goes on the crank has 3 keyways in it. One is for stock, one for advanced , and one for retarded. I put it together on the stock key, and it seems to run hot. Will it help to change it to the advanced keyway? I've heard of theses gears with 3 keys, but have yet to see or hear any explaination of the use of them. Thanks to anyone who can help me. Doug
Cam Questions
- Thread starter dugbred
- Start date
Cam gears
You have to degree the cam in. Has to be done. I bought a Cloyes timing chain set, and after degreeing the cam. had to use the 4 degree retard key, if I remember right. I know it wasn't the one it should have been. Gave me fits for a while. Finally just went with the key way that gave me the right numbers. This is the only way you can do this. Are you sure your top dead center is correct? This would affect timing and cause it to run hot.
You really need to pull the engine and check the cam timing. You will never know if it's right until you do.
Fred
You have to degree the cam in. Has to be done. I bought a Cloyes timing chain set, and after degreeing the cam. had to use the 4 degree retard key, if I remember right. I know it wasn't the one it should have been. Gave me fits for a while. Finally just went with the key way that gave me the right numbers. This is the only way you can do this. Are you sure your top dead center is correct? This would affect timing and cause it to run hot.
You really need to pull the engine and check the cam timing. You will never know if it's right until you do.
Fred
Doug, You have the engine together and running. The time to degree is before, not later. Models ask "what do you call hot?" Thats th e key. Are you running considerably hotter than before cam change? Have you experimented with total timing? I know you dont want to tear down for a few degrees of temp. so exhaust all efforts . People have many opinions on acceptable water temp. My 2 cts is -- if you can maintain 220 on hot summer day, that is not hot. Same engine will run 180 in cool weather. However, 230 is not acceptable , at least in my opinion. As a last result, you will have to tear down and degree, but this procedure is a little complicated for "first timers". If you dont intend to degree much in the future, it would be wise to pay for someones experience.
Ronnie Russell said:
My question is: "How fast should you reach 200 degrees ?" The new 409 I just installed in the BelAir, heats up to 190-180 degrees by the time I reach the end of the block ! I have a 4 row radiator, 180 * thermostat, and 6 blade fan with clutch. It held the temp at 190* while moving but temp climbed to 200* at the light, or slow speed. This was early in the morning, so the temp was only mid 60's. Seems to me that the motor is running very hot, but the cooling system is able to keep up if the car is moving. What is causing the temp to climb so quickly ? The timing is set at 10*. Your thoughts are appreciated.
I go almost 2 miles until the thermostat opens. Watching the guage, it hits 180, then it sharply drops off to about 160 when it opens.
From there, it creeps up and runs about 170 on a cold day - 190 on a hot day.
And of course, sitting in traffic will make it go higher than that. Mine usually doesn't go over 200.
From there, it creeps up and runs about 170 on a cold day - 190 on a hot day.
And of course, sitting in traffic will make it go higher than that. Mine usually doesn't go over 200.
Nuts. Im gonna say something that will upset many, but its your car. Take the thermostat out and throw it away. Then go drive your car and see if there is any improvement. Dont worry about "cold" temp. Cure the hot temp.
thermostat
I only run a thermostat when I want the engine to heat up quicker in the spring or just before winter here in Chicago. I run most of the summer without one. Sunday it was around 100 here and the engine ran around 180-200 in traffic (2 row 1" aluminum). If you have to (in your mind) run a thermostat, at least drill a small hole in it to bleed out the air. More timing usually runs cooler. Make sure the spark timing curve is correct.
I only run a thermostat when I want the engine to heat up quicker in the spring or just before winter here in Chicago. I run most of the summer without one. Sunday it was around 100 here and the engine ran around 180-200 in traffic (2 row 1" aluminum). If you have to (in your mind) run a thermostat, at least drill a small hole in it to bleed out the air. More timing usually runs cooler. Make sure the spark timing curve is correct.
Models916, I think that a lot of your sucess is ( 2 row 1" aluminum) My next time out, that is what I want instead of the old Desert cooler. Could you advise on what supplier you used? Thanks
the dreaded SC
I have had no problems with Show Cars, ever. They sold me this radiator for $349 about 2 years ago. Fits well but touches the stock stearing box a little. I ground it down a little. I have since changed to a 605 ps box. Radiator is made by Griffin. Engine will heat up in traffic if I don's use the stock clutch fan. I tried an electric push and pull but got hot in slow traffic without the stock fan in the shroud.
I have had no problems with Show Cars, ever. They sold me this radiator for $349 about 2 years ago. Fits well but touches the stock stearing box a little. I ground it down a little. I have since changed to a 605 ps box. Radiator is made by Griffin. Engine will heat up in traffic if I don's use the stock clutch fan. I tried an electric push and pull but got hot in slow traffic without the stock fan in the shroud.
Thanks models, will file info. for future. I, too, tried a high dollar electric fan on my trans-am last summer. Took the fan and fan clutch off and used elec. only. After all I see it on "magazine cars" all the time. Didnt make 2 mis. before overheating. Just mentioning it in case others might think that is the answer.
models916 said:
I tried it without and it didn't help..... I usually drill a hole but didn't this time because I was using an "High Speed stainless thermostat" and the NAPA guy said I wouldn't need it ???
How much more timing would you recommend ??? It does seem to run smoother at 12-15 degrees. What is spark timing curve ???
:?thanks
thanks for all the input everyone. I guess I need to degree the cam next. It got up to 230 degrees and I shut it down. It was hot enough that the stainless mufflers turned a nice golden color. This site is great, I hope I am able to help someone with some ideas someday. Thanks
thanks for all the input everyone. I guess I need to degree the cam next. It got up to 230 degrees and I shut it down. It was hot enough that the stainless mufflers turned a nice golden color. This site is great, I hope I am able to help someone with some ideas someday. Thanks
Nuts, To begin with, it is necessary to be able to read total timing. That requires a degreed balancer or timing tape on your stock balancer. If you use tape, it must be correct for your balancer diamiter. Mr. Gasket offers this tape, available at most chain parts stores. You might want to read -- "Help with a tune-up" by Jester 7,11,05 There is some basic info in that thread. You will also need a Distributor re-curve kit, again easily available at most parts stores. ( must be for your type of dist.) When you get to this point, just holler. There are many on this site that can walk you through the procedure. You might also disconnect vacuum control and plug. Then drive car to see if this helped temp problem. There are many factors that can contribute to overheating. Best way is to start at the beginning and go step by step. first step, making sure timing is correct. Hope this helps
Timing Help
Ronnie,
I'm running an electronic distributor with no vacuum advance. I have not checked the dwell setting for the distributor (not sure how or if it's adjustable). My timing lite has a dial to check advance and total advance it appears to be correct.
With the Z-11 cam and Scorpion Roller rockers, what should the initial timing setting be ? The guy who built the motor said, 10* ???
Ronnie,
I'm running an electronic distributor with no vacuum advance. I have not checked the dwell setting for the distributor (not sure how or if it's adjustable). My timing lite has a dial to check advance and total advance it appears to be correct.
With the Z-11 cam and Scorpion Roller rockers, what should the initial timing setting be ? The guy who built the motor said, 10* ???
Timing
If you have a timing light with the dial, don't worry about the initial advance. Set the total advance with your timing light. Should be about 35-36 degrees at 3000 or less. Mine is all in at 2700 RPM. The only reason to mess with the initial advance is if it wants to kick back on starting. Then you need to recurve your advance in the distributor. I think the HP 409s were set at 12 degrees initial, with 24 degrees in the advance weights and springs, total of 36 degrees. You are running the so called high test gas, I would assume. Also, with your dial timing light, you will read the timing at 0 degrees. Set the dial to what you want, and read it at 0. I figure you know this, but thought I would throw it in just in case.
Fred
If you have a timing light with the dial, don't worry about the initial advance. Set the total advance with your timing light. Should be about 35-36 degrees at 3000 or less. Mine is all in at 2700 RPM. The only reason to mess with the initial advance is if it wants to kick back on starting. Then you need to recurve your advance in the distributor. I think the HP 409s were set at 12 degrees initial, with 24 degrees in the advance weights and springs, total of 36 degrees. You are running the so called high test gas, I would assume. Also, with your dial timing light, you will read the timing at 0 degrees. Set the dial to what you want, and read it at 0. I figure you know this, but thought I would throw it in just in case.
Fred
Nuts, Sorry I confused you/ I didnt realize you had a dial-back timing light. Follow Freds instructions exactly.