finally someone has seen the problem

petepedlar

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
I found this article yesterday in a news magazine I get at work.
Dave






Half a century ago, after Harlow Curtice stepped down as CEO, the finance men decided to take control permanently. They created disaster after disaster since, but never allowed their power to be questioned.

The trouble started with CEO Frederick Donner. He started GM’s shift from product engineering to financially based engineering in the late 1950s. Donner also embarrassed the auto maker by paying private detectives to investigate GM-critic Ralph Nader’s personal life.

Then there was Roger Smith, who ran GM from 1981 to 1990. He saw the problems, but his “fixes,” from botched reorganizations to expensive robots to solve GM’s quality and productivity problems, only made matters worse.

For a brief two years, a brilliant engineer did become chairman. Robert Stempel, who developed the front-wheel-drive Toronado and the catalytic converter, began the process of correcting his predecessors’ errors in the early 1990s. But he was used as a scapegoat for GM’s troubles at the time and quickly forced out.

Jack Smith followed Stempel in 1992. He decided car guys had no place in upper management and set up a system that froze them out.

The recently deposed Rick Wagoner followed Smith in 2000 and also focused on financial solutions, instead of product, as GM sank under him.

At least in the old days, the CEO always had a product person at his side as president. The smarter CEOs listened to them occasionally.

For too long, GM executives wasted time and resources on boondoggles, such as buying computer companies and interests in small auto makers, while they allowed the auto maker to fall behind in engines, transmissions, interiors and design.

So let’s have a real culture change. Put the bean counters where they belong. Let there be a financial officer as vice president, but not CEO. Let’s have people at the top who understand the car business and prove it with great deeds.

In GM’s heyday, a powerful vice president headed each car division. He usually was an engineer but he ran everything, including the factories, dealer and public relations. That’s where he learned to be an executive.

GM’s great successes have come from car guys and inventions such as the automatic transmission and catalytic converter, not financial wizards. Designer Harley Earl supercharged sales by inventing vehicle styling in the 1920s and tailfins in the 1950s; engineer Edward Cole created a powertrain dynasty with the legendary small-block V-8.

Yes, car guys mess up, too. But if GM is to be saved it needs heroes who know cars. The best news in this regard is Bob Lutz, the quintessential car guy, is staying on at GM after all.

If you look at the great auto makers, car guys are the true movers and shakers, not financial people.

Jerry Flint is a columnist for, and former senior editor of, Forbes magazine.
 

WENGINE

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
The bean counters alway screw everything up everytime and still they alway seem to be in charge:? I work for a company thats run by bean counters. They just dont get it and you cant explain it to them. There shud be a DUH test developed by somone with a clue before these people are allowed to be in charge of somthing:scratch:bang:takethat
 

raymar58409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
How I PO bean counters.

The company I work for has turned to bean counting. We now must transflow our paperwork immediately after unloading our load which is done at truck stops and allows company to collect their pay for the load sooner. Perfectly fine with me and understandable as they are trying to stay alive in a bidding war for freight. Heres the crunch: when I pay a toll or truck related expense I have to wait as long as a month to get reimbursed on my paycheck. So as I'm trying to pay my bills, if I put out $100 I then have an advance put on my fuel card for $300 and it takes them at least two weeks to get it back. If I haven't gotten reimbursed by then I do it again.Goes around comes around.

Ray
 

boxerdog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
Most companies are looking to the MBAs for leadership and instead getting a bunch of candy-asses who won't take responsibility for their actions. The other type we have created in b-schools is the einsteins who left Enron, settled on Wall Street and ran the same scam all over again on a larger scale, then expected (and got) a bailout + a raise. Go figure.
 

DonSSDD

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Jerry Flint got it right, its product that GM has been failing at. Where would GM have been without the small block V8? That dates to 1955, they have invented nothing since that has had anywhere near that impact.

The main problem has been a lack of management leadership, blame everything on the high cost of labour, right? R&D is too expensive too.

Bean counters can always look at costs, decide to cut them to save money, but they are unable to accurately measure the loss of revenue the cost cutting causes.

Don
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
The main problem has been a lack of management leadership, blame everything on the high cost of labor, right? R&D is too expensive too.

Bean counters can always look at costs, decide to cut them to save money, but they are unable to accurately measure the loss of revenue the cost cutting causes.

Don

No one has even mention what the biggest and main problem is with most of the US corporations.

EXCESSIVE top management compensation !!!:?

Take a look at what the top management is being paid today with wages and bonuses and you will see why they can`t pay the blue collar workers a decent wage and benefits and have to out source the work to Mexico and China!!:cuss

I read that in the 70`s the wage difference between the top and bottom employees was a 40% difference.
Today the difference is 400% !!!:scratch
Go figure,,, you wonder why they can`t make a profit?

It is not the unions or wages they pay the factory workers it the pay they give the top white collar idiots !!

In 2004 CEOs in the United States made over 475 times as much as the average worker.

I`m not saying that some of the concession they gave the unions are right, there is waste there also, I`m just saying that that there is a top heavy pay difference that is bankrupting these US corporation!

General Motors Corp (GM.N) Chief Executive Rick Wagoner's salary and other compensation rose 64 percent in 2007 to about $15.7 million

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN2534738420080425

This is also true in the banking industries,,,

In 2004, the average American CEO was paid $10 million, as reported in The Wall Street Journal’s annual analysis of the 350 largest public companies (WSJ 2005). This is a huge 14.5 percent increase over the annual CEO compensation in 2003. American CEO pay currently dwarfs foreign CEO pay. German CEOs make 13 times more than the average German manufacturing employee an in Japan, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio is just 11-to-1 (Greenfield 1999).

http://www.cab.latech.edu/~mkroll/510_papers/fall_05/Group6.pdf

Now, if you bring down the top pay to these bast*rds how many factory workers do you think they could retain and keep our good paying jobs in the US?

This is not rocket science,,,,,,:bang
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
No one has even mention what the biggest and main problem is with most of the US corporations.

EXCESSIVE top management compensation !!!:?

Take a look at what the top management is being paid today with wages and bonuses and you will see why they can`t pay the blue collar workers a decent wage and benefits and have to out source the work to Mexico and China!!:cuss

I read that in the 70`s the wage difference between the top and bottom employees was a 40% difference.
Today the difference is 400% !!!:scratch
Go figure,,, you wonder why they can`t make a profit?

It is not the unions or wages they pay the factory workers it the pay they give the top white collar idiots !!



I`m not saying that some of the concession they gave the unions are right, there is waste there also, I`m just saying that that there is a top heavy pay difference that is bankrupting these US corporation!



http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN2534738420080425

This is also true in the banking industries,,,



http://www.cab.latech.edu/~mkroll/510_papers/fall_05/Group6.pdf

Now, if you bring down the top pay to these bast*rds how many factory workers do you think they could retain and keep our good paying jobs in the US?

This is not rocket science,,,,,,:bang

Something is very wrong here.....I agree with DQ.:eek:
No one is worth that kind of money, but I don't want the government dictating pay. The problem is in the board of directors. Change the regs to require stockholder approval for executive compensation and I guarantee it will get fixed.
 

DonSSDD

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
The rationale for the big pay was big profits. IF the companies make big money, maybe the big pay is OK.
The money they make should be based on long term profits, say at least a 5 year average, not on this year's results. Too easy to make the numbers look good for one or 2 years, get a big bonus, and to helllll with tomorrow.

Don
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
The rationale for the big pay was big profits. IF the companies make big money, maybe the big pay is OK.
The money they make should be based on long term profits, say at least a 5 year average, not on this year's results. Too easy to make the numbers look good for one or 2 years, get a big bonus, and to helllll with tomorrow.

Don

BS !!!:takethat

GREED !!! Pure and simple !!!

If you put profits ahead of how well the company is run what you get is lay offs and cheap products !!!

Most CEO`s now sit on the boards!!!

Years ago, and really not that long ago, a good run company was the thing that made the stocks hold their value.
Today it is fast money,,,,, the more the better !!
To h*ll with how well the comany is doing,,, Profit is KING !!!!

GREED !!!!
 

boxerdog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
I more or less agree with DQ, I guess.

If big profits should =big pay, then the opposite should be true. When your stupid *** bankrupts a company, you lose everything you own right along with the workers and stockholders. When you take a bailout, you get an apron at Mickey D's.

just my simple minded rant.
 

rstreet

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 17
I more or less agree with DQ, I guess.

If big profits should =big pay, then the opposite should be true. When your stupid *** bankrupts a company, you lose everything you own right along with the workers and stockholders. When you take a bailout, you get an apron at Mickey D's.

just my simple minded rant.

I more or less agree with both of you! But I have another soapbox issue having to do with gov't employees qualifications.
robert
 

raymar58409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Ain't nothin new

This is gettin scarry here......................................everybody agreeing with DQ.:roll

Darn, I gotta agree with him too.:eek:

See if someone can dig up what happened to Consolidated Freightways. In the 70's CEO was around a million including expenses. I figured it back then he was getting 20 times what the CEO of GM was getting with 1/20th the number of employees. I had a high school teacher tell me back in '72 that greed and division will bring down this country. Anyone see this happening?:bang

Call me :crazy
Ray
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
This is gettin scarry here......................................everybody agreeing with DQ.:roll

I had a high school teacher tell me back in '72 that greed and division will bring down this country. Anyone see this happening?:bang

Call me :crazy
Ray

I started saying that years ago !!
I even was saying that the balls out economy was a farce and would sink as fast as the Titanic once most had sucked the equity out of their homes and had no more money to keep the greed factory flying !!!

And yes , thats just what happened !~!

And as far as agreeing with me?:?

The older I get I seem to see thing differently,,,:crazy
 
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