Justifiable Homicide!!!!!!!!!!

Phil Reed

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 10
:cry:cry:bang:bang:cuss:cuss:takethat:takethat:doh:argue:

Had a customer call me yesterday. Hadn't talked with him in years so we got all caught up.

The reason he called was he wanted to tell me what happened to him recently. He had a certain 409 block that he had kept for the last 25 to 30 years. He drug it with him thru 2 or 3 major moves from state to state. Well, he decided to get it cleaned up so he took it to a local machine shop and told them to hot tank it for him. When he went to pick it up...............not only had they hot tanked it as per his instructions..........but they also decided to deck the block to clean it up for him. WITHOUT PERMISSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The block..................oh................it was stamped QM!!!!!!!!

Can you imagine any jury convicting this guy of manslaughter or homicide??????????? Not me. The guy at the machine shop said they do that for just about everybody!!!

A REAL Z-11 block no longer exists. And my friend didn't write down the VIN or assembly number before he took it in. There isn't enought blood pressure medicine in ALL of the Walgreen's Pharmacys to have controlled me if I would have this happen to me. I'd probably be in Leavenworth penitentiary!!! Me and all the rest of the Gitmo prisoners!! A really sad story.........................
 

real61ss

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 8
When I took my '61 409 motor to the machine shop I stressed to the owner that he was not to deck the block.

The owner was a good freind of mine, I jokingly told him that removing those numbers would assure him of a 38 caliper one way ticket straight to hell!!!!

Needless to say, my block wasn't decked
 

petepedlar

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
I have heard a rumor that there is an acid of some kind that you can put on the block and the numbers will show........ aparently the Police use it..... anybody know anything about it ????

I'd be buying an X-ray machine if I had to.......... and sending the bill to the machine shop.

Dave
 

MRHP

 
Supporting Member 1
wow!

I have heard about the acid as well. When the numbers are stamped, it makes the iron more dense in those areas. The acid does not etch the more dense areas as much as the less dense areas. Wow, what a shame.
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
I haven't tried it yet but I was planning on giving it a shot on my 61 block. If somebody beats me to it give us all a report.:dunno

Acid Etching to Recover ID Stamps
Camaro Research Group
16 Apr 2000

If you use this procedure, please post a note on the CRG Forum
with your impressions and results. Please heed the safety warnings
and do not attempt this if you are inexperienced in handling hazardous
materials.

*****
I tried the acid etch, it looks like you can make out the number T0419JL.
The T04***L for certain the 19J are faint. Thanks for the tip on the acid etch.
Steve brewing1@home.com
*****

The technical standard for metal etching is covered by ASTM
(http://www.astm.org/) E340, Standard Test Method for Macroetching
Metals and Alloys. The ASTM standard contains background and details
not included in this CRG draft. We strongly encourage anyone
considering metal etching to obtain a copy of this either from the
website (for a fee) or from your local library in Volume 3.01 of the
ASTM Book of Standards.

THE PROCEDURE INVOLVES USE OF ACID, AND THERE ARE OBVIOUS SAFETY
ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH SUCH MATERIALS. USE SAFETY GLASSES AND
ACID-RESISTANT GLOVES, READ THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS ON THE CONTAINERS.
IF DILUTING - ADD ACID TO SOLVENT RATHER THAN SOLVENT TO ACID, BE
CAREFUL OF FUMES, DO THIS IN A VENTILATED AREA, ETC.

The theory, for those interested, is that the cold-work of the
stamping process changes the metal microstructure locally around the
imprint, sufficiently so that there is a resulting difference in
resistance (increase or decrease) to acid attack in the portion that
has been cold-worked. If the original stamp is removed, the material
underneath retains this change in microstructure, which is not visible
to the naked eye (until being revealed through etching).

There is a limit to how much material can be removed during the
decking process before etching will not reveal the original stamp.
Obviously the deeper the current surface is below the original surface
the less distinct any characters will be.

For illustration, here are the approximate steps for cast iron:

1) Prepare or purchase etching solution. There are numerous types of
etching solutions. The "general purpose" solution in the standard for
iron and steel is a 50/50 mix of concentrated hydrochloric acid and
water. An easily obtainable close approximation of this is swimming
pool muriatic acid, available from swimming pool and home improvement
stores, usually already in a diluted form. (Note: a 160F-180F
solution is suggested in the ASTM standard test method, but we
strongly recommend avoiding use of a heated acid solution in a
hobbyist garage. A room-temperature solution will work - but will take
a little longer.)

2) Remove all grease, dirt, and paint from area to be etched.

3) Mask off portions of the casting that you don't want etched. You
don't want the etching solution washing down your cylinder bores!

4) Clean the pad with solvent and/or cleaning solution. "Any grease,
oil, or other residue will produce uneven attack."

5) Saturate a cotton ball held in tongs with the etching solution,
uniformly swabbing the area of interest. Wait for the "structure to be
developed" (characters to appear). Since the estimate development time
is 15-30 minutes you may have to repeat the swabbing periodically to
keep the surface uniformly wet with etchant. When the characters
become visible or it becomes obvious that they won't, you can stop.

6) Rinse the casting with hot water to remove the etchant.

7) If necessary, "desmut" the surface by vigorous scrubbing with a
vegetable fiber brush.

8) Blow the casting dry with compressed air.
 

mark johnson

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Oh my gosh Phil, I almost wish you didn't even share that story with us! It makes me naseous just hearing about that. I've thought about freshening the real LS-6 454 "CRR" engine in the 'Cayne and if I did, I've got this vision in my head of telling the 1st machinist NOT to deck and the 2ND shift machinist coming in to work that does get the special instructions. Thanks for knocking my original block to 90% of it's actual value!
 

Tom Kochtanek

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 13
Sad, but interesting....

That really hurts. I'm sure he knew he had a Z-11 block, correct? Why would you trust anything like that to someone who wasn't thoroughly informed (as in what not to do!)? Terrible that it happened. Before I knew about "matching numbers" I made the mistake of letting a correct 1963 Muncie four speed casing get out of my hands. Went back to fetch it but never found the original (I must have pulled 30 cases that were 1963 Muncies down from the garage wall at Wayne Eupers). Might have been non-orginal to begin with, I'll never know...

Now I'm more up to date on the reasons behind numbers matching, and I take care accordingly. I was wondering if that acid technique would work on my May 24, 1961 block that appears to have been "restamped" with the oddball numbers? Think I might be able to pick up tracing underneath the existing stampings?

Cheers,
TomK
 

rstreet

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 17
Supposed to Tom. That's how they have to do guns sometimes but I thought some sort of uv light or some other light spectrum was involved
robert
 

Greg Reimer

Well Known Member
Seems to me that a Z-11 engine block had the words Hi Perf Pass cast into it someplace like a 396 block does. Look for that to legitemize the casting as a Z-11.
 

petepedlar

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Just for your information, we meaning Richmond Engines have figured out how to deck a block and keep the stamp on the front.

Dave
 
Top