COMP CAM Lifters " D "

[Iowa409]

So, spring has come I am back up and at'em again.

I have never, ever been happy with my lifters and I have changed them twice, non of them were Comp lifters, I think Precision, Advance Auto Parts stock, flat tappet cam hydraulic lifters...... a lifter is a lifter is a lifter???? right??? maybe not so fast....

So while I was laid up a bit I started going down that rabbit hole because, well I was bored. AND determined to get to the source of my issue.

I had some great conversations with Comp and they suggested I try these new BULLET PROOF 812D-16 lifter set could not find a set anywhere, finally found some at Speedway, gathering gaskets and so forth for the swap, they swear by them, not one failure has been reported they say.....we shall see

 

[427John]

So how exactly did these lifters fail if they didn't also wipe out the cam?

 

[Iowa409]

So how exactly did these lifters fail if they didn't also wipe out the cam?

John, that is going to be tough to answer, because I am not sure of anything other then I hear lifter noise and I do not like it, that I know.

I think the short answer, is I have tried adjusting the the preload several different technics, styles recommendations, I never got it right or I got the push rod adjustments to tight, so in short, operator error I would think or be willing to agree its something I am missing. BUT I am going to try a couple of different technics this time, starting with no pre-soak in oil, assembly oil yes. So perhaps I should not blame the lifter, but I will know more when I pull them out, I would guess I have collapsed 1 or 2 of them. I had thought about trying to set up my dial indicator with a magnet base to try to to adjust them 25-30 thousand's preload, trying to decide if A. that would work? B. at what point to measure from, need to think about that some more.

 

[Ishiftem]

I am highly skeptical. Historically DLC coated lifters need to be run on a steel cam core not a cast one. Second, DLC coatings have come down in price but it still is a pricey process. I'm thinking it is marketing b.s. As for comp saying they have had zero failures, I call b.s. on that also. I would stick with hylift johnson and a purpose made break in oil without additional potions added.

 

[Gliderider06]

I had a 383 Cuda with a comp cam set. Lifters were ALWAYS clattering. Comp said I needed adjustable rockers. I purchased the very pricey Mopar adjustable set. Adjusted them the way comp told me. Lifters still clattered. I ended up changing to a set of Sealed Power lifters and was quiet then on.
I would be hesitant on those Comp lifters and maybe try a set of Rhoades or another brand first.

 

[Don Jacks]

Leave well enough alone or risk killing the cam and having to completely go thru that engine..Rhoades lifters by their design wikll always be noisey .

 

[SSpev]

What kind of proof do you have that the lifter has failed? Does the noise go away with an adjustment? Is there a rocker hitting something? is this a circle of events? Install, adjust, run, noise, loosen adjust, no noise, run, noise, repeat. the loosen could be just "resetting" the problem then run brings it back.

 

[32witha409]

Wanted to through in my $.02.
Not totally apples to apples but applicable to the symptoms and history.
This problem is more common then you would think in newly built IH SV series engines. Some times the symptoms appear right away, some times after some number of miles. Most have lifter noise at random times, some the noise is constant and on the same cylinders, and have swapped in new lifters to no avail. After going through all of the steps to verify lifter preload the issue is lifter gallery oiling. Common root cause is cam bearing wiping, or improperly installed bearings.
I do believe that the cam journals had been polished in the wrong direction, where the IH SV series cams are gear driven and turn the opposite direction from the chain driven variety.

You have gone through all of the steps. I'll let you decide where to go next.

For context, the fairly fresh 348 in my Impala had a lot of valve train noise after the oil was hot. After tearing it down for other reasons, I found the rear bearing was worn badly, such that the oil groove in the cam was 75% blocked by the babbitt layer still in place. I might still have the bearing to post pictures from.
Not exactly what I recalled because the bearing has a groove as well, but about .020 wear in the babbitt.

 

[Iowa409]

Lots of good input guys, thanks for the other possibilities.

I've already bought everything, so its going to happen for sure with the 812D-16 installs, in next few weeks.

 

[boxerdog]

I've seen several sets of Comp FT lifters that leaked excessively around the pushrod button. I'm staying away from FT lifters in the future anyway whenever possible, especially Comp. All of the best FT lifters I bought were Crower for a long time, but I think they are outsourcing them to Johnson now perhaps. I've also never had problems with Lunati although I haven't used too many of them.

 

[Iowa409]

I drove this car for a bit before winter, runs good, great powerful engine, snap your head back 4 speed and 4:11 posi gears, it friggin barks.

But then in creeps that ticking noise, have you ever been so obsessed with a nuisance that it cannot, beat you or survive, its you or them, type thing? This is it for me, I am being that guy, lol.


To answer a few more questions: there were some damn good ideas thrown out.

New Cam, flat tappet lifter, pre soak, install R &R everything, follow the 348-409 literature, although the procedure looking back was not done correctly, should have done a better job of adjusting pushrods with the intake (Eldebrock small port) still off, to get a more precise view of the cam overlap. Start it up after warm...... noisy, yes break in oil, zinc the whole shebang. Had a buddy come over he adjusted them for me, car would no longer crank over, way to friggin tight, did not trust them, replaced them. Education is expensive, for sure.

Round 2:
New Sealed Power HT-817, by Federal Mogul, made in Japan right on the box, lol, install using the same procedure, pre soaked, but this time I was careful to get the push rods adjusted using the same method, but this time I could make sure both the intake and exhaust were in overlap and was the correct point to adjust from. R&R, start it, maybe 12 of the 16 are great and seem to be within normal ranges and should be fine, that means four are not, so start adjusting and it gets away from me, and I miss the sweet spot.

I have been told part of my issue is pre oiling and soaking, so I will try this set dry other then assembly lube, the you cannot get a good feel for the 25-30thousands pre load, fighting pressure??? any thoughts in that area?

 

[32witha409]

The lifter itself is not that sensitive to preload so long as it does not block the oil hole in the side of the body. Oil fills the void under the piston and the air is pumped out regardless of amount of preload. .025-.0625 preload should not be an issue.

I always prelube the engines with the oil pump go ensure oiled bearings and full oil gallery's. Lifters are quiet in ~10-15 seconds.

 

[Murphdog]

I never pre-soaked any lifters in all the engines I have assembled of all 3 of the original Detroit players. Reused a few hydraulics. I would put the lifter in my arbor press and press on the plunger/push rod seat cup squeezing all the oil out. Then it was easy to adjust/see/feel preload. Never had a customer complain about any lifter noise. Everyday SBC/BBC adjustable valve train engines, I would normally tighten rockers an additional 3/4 to 1 turn after zero lash. It's not rocket science.
Jeff

 

[SSpev]

I never pre-soaked any lifters in all the engines I have assembled of all 3 of the original Detroit players. Reused a few hydraulics. I would put the lifter in my arbor press and press on the plunger/push rod seat cup squeezing all the oil out. Then it was easy to adjust/see/feel preload. Never had a customer complain about any lifter noise. Everyday SBC/BBC adjustable valve train engines, I would normally tighten rockers an additional 3/4 to 1 turn after zero lash. It's not rocket science.
Jeff

Me too! minus the arbor press.

 

[rstreet]

Old school knowledge
Robert

 

[Don Jacks]

Me too! minus the arbor press.

 

[Iowa409]

The lifter change # 3 underway.

It’s raining and shitty, so LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE

 

[Iowa409]

Pic of valley you can see cam alignment, is that normal to ride off center on the lobe?

 

[32witha409]

Yes, That helps initiate lifter rotation.
I hope it is sprinkling, I see beads of water on the cam.

 

[Iowa409]

Clean up has begun.