1963-64 Positraction blues....

[denson1932]

Tonite i installed new rear axle bearings...first problem after pressing bearings on, the steel retainer rings NOT a press fit too loose on axle boss, So i decided to tac weld them to axle so they wont come off....shoulda bought NOS not import stuff....
Next problem the Left (drivers side - shorter) axle- with new wheel bearing installed- slid into place after shearing excess O-ring rubber material off...maybe next time i will use #2 Permatex instead of grease to smoote the entry of bearing into housing....
Anyway the Right (passenger side- longer axle) refuses to go in the housing the last 1/2" no matter how much i try to persuade it with big hammer and wooden block....seems the spline engagement hangs up 1/2 way in.....i see in the 1961 shop manual Positraction section there is 1/2 of mating spline on the spider gear and the other 1/2 of spline engagement on the clutch pac disc.....I put a big pipe wrench on Diff yoke and tried to rotate axle to possibly align splines, but afraid using crow bar on wheel lug bolt will bend them....anyway looking way in there with flashlite seems the splines are aligned but sliding in a metal strap (bar) feels like valley between splines has a hang-up edge not a rotational misalignment?? My thought is the use a die grinder and taper both the sides and bottom of the axle splines (at the outboard end of axle). Comments appreciated in advance...

 

[models916]

I use a file on the axle tube to smooth the entry and save the O-ring. Put a wheel on the axle and jerk it around to line up the splines.

 

[1961 Bubble Boy]

Welding or grinding the axle shaft is not a good idea. It is forged and machined and welding will screw up the heat treatment and grinding will weaken it and screw up the machined finish. The bearing retaining ring helps hold the axle shaft in the axle housing so if it is oversize, buy another that press fits correctly. On the o-ring, you need to get it in without shearing any off or you will likely end up with a leak. For the splines, the side gear retainer ring teeth and the side gear teeth must align so following models916 advice using a wheel to manipulate it is a great idea. Keep in mind this is a tight tolerance assembly and the slightest misalignment will prevent entry. Beating it with a hammer will just make you tired and damage the gears.

 

[mark johnson]

I always loosen the cast iron center section just enough so that it has a little bit of jiggle within the housing then slide the axles in before tightening everything back up. It really helps align everything up. Naturally this also works great with Ford 9", early Olds/Pontiac, Chrysler 8 3/4, etc.

 

[denson1932]

i removed the mentioned 3.36 Posi from our 1938 Chevy Coupe hot rod (1957 Chevy housing) in 1980 or so and replaced it with a 3.55 posi because we added a trailer hitch. The 3.36 Posi has been in covered storage ever since and now it's time has come in our project '62 bubbletop (because everyone wants a "4-speed positraction dual quad 409"). Anyway i cant understand why the internal spline alignment got off especially considering i cannot budge it back into alignment...this is one tight Posi! So i decided to completely disassemble it, the clutch surfaces look fine, there is a nice layer of fluid on the surfaces, i am off to buy some posi additive to use for assembly lube, i will clean,lube,assemble and get the splines in alignment before tightening the 8 left hand bolts...hope the book has a torque value for them. The welding on the axle for the not very tight lock rings is just a spot weld on either side...doubt that will cause any problems...On the wheel bearing O-rings i am sure a coat of Permatex instead of grease will prevent any future leaks....in fact i wish i had used Permatex when pressing on the rear wheel (axle) bearings...did you know the later shop manuals recommend Permatex on the pinion yoke splines to prevent seepage?

 

[mark johnson]

Don't forget the axle flange gaskets that everybody loves to leave out

 

[tripower]

When I assembly a posi I clamp one axle in the vise with a set of soft jaws set the carrier on with side gears and clutches in order then set top half on and insert second axle tighten the eight "NEW" carrier bolts. Now assembly is a breeze.

As to your O-ring the permatex fix will not work. It will most defiantly leak and ruin your brakes.

Also, I agree with 1961 bubble boy, welding or tack welding the collar is creating yet another issue for yet another repair down the road. If you take the time to do it right the fist time you will eliminate headaches down the road or rather on the side of the road...

 

[1961 Bubble Boy]

Since you pulled the carrier, I would also do the following before you put it back in:

1 Test fit the axle splines into the carrier outside the axle housing to make sure they fit or work through any fit issues or better yet, tripowers suggestion to use the axle to align the splines in the first place.

2 Test fit the axle into the axle housing to make sure your new bearing allows the axle to fully seat.

Once these both check out try to put the whole thing back together hopefully one last time...

 

[denson1932]

Ok so the consensus is: i already ruined my axles by spot welding to them thereby weakening them, and the new rear axle bearings i installed are import junk anyway because they have a very small O-ring that gets partially shaved off, so therefore leaks will ruin my rear brakes (even though rear end housing fluid is not pressurized in fact it is vented), and i beat on the Posi gears and damaged them also. So with all those strikes it just makes economic sense to order a Currie complete package rear end for 1959-64 Impala.

 

[1961 Bubble Boy]

I think anybody who has done some serious wrench turning has been frustrated with a project like yours multiple times. We are just trying to give some guidance from experience like the kind I got from my dad.

1. Your axles hopefully are fine, but as a rule don't try welding them.
2. If you can't get your bearings in without shaving off the o-ring, maybe they don't fit correctly and you should return them.
3. If the retaining ring which is to be a press fit slides right on, it is not the right size and maybe I would return it.
4. While the axle is not pressurized, damaged or twisted o-rings will leak from the static pressure from gravity of the oil level in the axle and end up screwing up your brake shoes so take the time to make sure they go in nicely.
5. Pounding on the axle is not good for it but without any visible damage they are probably fine.

I would try and put it together keeping these points in mind and get other bearings if these won't allow you to properly assemble the axle. It's easy and almost inevitable to get frustrated working on anything mechanical. My dad always told me to go take a walk or think about something else for a while to get your mind off of it.

 

[skipxt4]

Good Advice.

 

[tripower]

As 1961 bubble boy pointed out there is a wrong way and a right way. We were merely trying to point out the proper procedure from prior experience, that is why we are all here, to help or be helped. If you are unsure of a procedure do the resurch or ask here so you don't have to go through it twice.
As to the bearing collar and O-ring seals, there is a difference in quality of parts, we have a member here that sells these parts (1958 delivery).

 

[LMBRJQ 60]

Even a tack weld on the bearing retainer will eventually make the axel shear right at the weld. The time between when you weld it and when it fails is all up to your right foot. Ask me how I know...
Just saying I won't do it again.
If pushed and I couldn't get another retainer smaller I would hacksaw or cut off disc the retainer and shrink it then weld the retainer back together then press it on just no localized heat on the axel

Jmho

Steve

 

[denson1932]

actually i see the housing ends do have a factory taper not a sharp edge so that problem may be as simple as replacing the cheapo O-rings. The bearings slide into the housing with typical tightness as i am used to experiencing....the bearings went on the axle shaft with a protest and typical 'snappings' sound all the way home...since i pressed on the inner bearing half this is fine.....the bearings aren't coming off the axles without ruining them as it is impossible to support the inner now...

 

[models916]

If you used a MIG to spot weld, I doubt the axle is damaged. Still, quality axles are not a major expense. Stock axles are a weak point worth upgrading.

 

[Rickys61]

Also, if you decide to go with an all new setup, check out Johns Nine Inch Factory in Michigan..
Rick