283 Crank and rod question

[Fran Preve]

South: no can't say I have heard of B&L, but everybody seems to agree buy something you can bolt in, then play with the old motor. 'poo isn't ready to build his own, yet, but I'm sure he will. Like youse guys said, there's nothing like firing up your first "own" motor. Even if he starts with a cam and intake. Once he does he'll never go back (although if i have to have a block bored I'll let THEM asemble the short block!).

 

[pappoo07]

I'm going to buy a rebuild book once school and work settle down a little. I've been REEEEAALLL busy recently. Hopefully I'll study the book all summer and have a decent understanding of engines in the near future...

But I'm still lookin for an answer from my previous post.. The guy at the GM performance parts center told me there is now a $100 core charge on all GM 350 long blocks. He said GM is probably going to start selling the 350s as remanufactured engines and do away with the 'new' long blocks to keep costs down. Was this guy trying to put one over on me or can someone verify this?

If this is indeed the case, I can only hope jegs, summit, or sdpc will still be able to sell me a 'new' long block (w/o core exchange). I fear that they will also start doing core charges since they probably get thier GM engines through GM.


I still got that swap meet coming up in a week. If I don't find anything there, I will try to get a warrantied GM 350 long block from a catalog. If I can't find a way to do that without a core exchange, then I will explore all the junk yards in my area. I will have it all figured out within the next few weeks.

 

[bobs409]

I recommend the book, "How to rebuild your small block Chevy" by David Vizard. It's a great reference and easy to read/understand. Don't expect to read it once and know everything though. I must have read this book 6 times by now!

This book was published by HP Books and brand new cost $9.95 and was made in 1978 but there may be newer ones. Check ebay for a good used one. A book like this won't stay clean long so used is fine. (the good ones never do!)

 

[Southtowns27]

I haven't heard anything about the core charge, but I wouldn't be surprised if they start doing it. First generation 350's (what you're looking for) are actually starting to get hard to find. My guess is that the factory wants them back instead of them going to the boneyard. Just my theory anyway...

 

[Fran Preve]

This not a statement of FACT but I've heard the over the counter engines, specifically the low horse ones are made in Mexico. I've heard something about watching out for "mexican" blocks. The block is the only thing they need to build these engines, everything else is "outsourced" except for the head if they cast the block in Mexico they also cast the head.

As a side note, Tonawanda began tearing out the old Mark IV case job (it had been replaced completely with a new Mark V case job), when the suddenly had to put it all back together!. Seems they had an order for 15,000 cases bought by an engine REBUILDER in Texas!. This rebuilder (and their name escapes me) was using NEW cases rebuilding motors. So they ran off these motors and then tore everything out.

 

[1911]

we returned all GM crate replacement engines for core refund, I refer to the "target" engines rebuilt by or for GM. This was true 1980 thru 1996. Partial & fitted blocks as well as over the counter performance engines did not at that time require an exchange. If the price quote was for a target engine then the core charge is nothing new. The target was a rebuilt, complete oil pan to rocker covers, minus intake. It was ordered as a replacement for a specific make, model, year, and was the cheapest. This is the engine I would think the quote would be for and would be a fast way to get finished. If you can find a running 70's thru 86 chevy truck with a original 350 then even if it wasn't perfect, once your 283 was done you would have a 350 4 bolt block to use for your next engine build. I forgot that perk about getting a used running engine. If you look hard and long you may even happen across a 400, lousy stock engine but can be built into something wild. Junk trucks where I live go pretty cheap and normally you don't have to look at many before finding a 4 bolt. The rebuilt would be a guarantee of no problems, used veh. running you would at least get to hear the engine run before purchasing, bone yards a gamble and you won't know anything until it's installed. So I guess it comes down to how much money you got or how lucky you are.

 

[Fran Preve]

1911: or someone?. It's my understanding that ALL 350 FOUR BARREL truck engines were 4 bolt AND had a forged crank to boot. I don't know beyond 77 as far as the forged crank is concerned. All the ads I see today for the "up to '87" 350 crate engine do not mention a core charge, as in NONE I've seen. But I've never bought one (a friend did for replacing a 305 in a Monte SS). I'd like to have more input here.

400's: In 1988 I built a 400 for a 1979 Malibu I had. 1976 engine, 61,000 miles. Put in a Comp Cams 268h cam with a 108 centerline (they changed it later to 110), Wiend 8004 duel plane, Holley 600 vac, headers and not much else. The car was a complete DOG!. So much so I didn't even want to drive it (and I had done the body, interior, was a nice car). Well I decided to dump the car so I built a mild 307, put that in and pulled the 400.
A year later I bought a shorty C10 "box" (van), painted it a chocolet brown, did a homemade conversion, turned out pretty nice. But it had a 6 so because I was going to tow with it I decided to put the "dog" 400 in it, also with headers. Finished the conversion, my mechanic buddy and I took it out on the street, punched it, and our eyes got the size of saucers!. IT RAN!. The malibu scaled at 3400 lbs, the van at 4400 lbs. The Malibu would SOMETIMES run a low 10 (1/8th), usually high ten. DOG!. The van did 10 flats on a bad day, high 9's on a good one. After a couple of years driving it I ran it at Maple Grove at a Super Chevy, 15.30's/15.40's at 90mph. Now this was a 2 ton plus BRICK!.
Why?. Well call me stupid, I never changed or thought about the rear end in the 'bu, which was either a 2.41 or 2.29! (it had a 267 to start). The van had a 3.08. What if I had put a 3.55 or 3.73 in it?. One like that ran 9 flat's or better.
And I could put a 3300 lb Corvette on an open trailer anad it would tow like it wasn't there. That engine all dirty and oily sits on a stand in my garage, it'll go in SOMETHING someday!.

OK, now when I pulled the original 2 barrel intake off I pulled the fitting for the heater hose, guess what, it almost TOTALLY blocked the thermostat crossover!. I never saw one as long, before or since. 400's had cooling problems?. This MIGHT have been one of the problems, it's something I'd like to check on other motors. In my case I ran a 5 blade thermofan (stock from the six), and a 3 core radiator with SIXTEEN fins per inch. My radiator shop recommended it for towing, said fins per inch were more important than a 4 core. In any event, with a 180 thermostat I never had an overheating problem towing, hot or cold out, up or down hills, never. I think the over heating "story" was just that, a bad rap on 400's.

I have another 400 in my wife's 79 Vette, which had an L-82 in it. This one has a Edlebrock Performer, 750 3310, Comp Cams 270, S/R Torquer heads and headers. It has 3.08 gears and a T350 with a 56-5700 shift point built in. With the L-82 it ran 9.30's/.40's. With the 400 the best I could get was a 8.70, with no consistancy. The L-82 would go 99mph, the 400 98. Why?. I'll find out, right now I think it's in the exhaust, which is only 2" (it should be 2 1/2). I'll replace that with the correct 2 and 1/2 with Flowmasters. Then take a hard look at the fuel system.

Long stories, anyway, if you put a 400 in ANYTHING treat it like a big block, because it is. That means 2 1/2 inch exhaust AT LEAST with efficient mufflers. 3/8th's fuel line a minimum, and put a 3.08 gear or better in it, 3.55 would be a GOOD gear, with a 2000 converter.

PS: with the price of cranks what they are today, if you haven't got a 400 and your going to rebuild the engine don't bother, put a SCAT crank in a 350 and build a 383.

 

[1911]

Fran, the biggest problem with the 400 was the cyl. heads. 170 cc intake runner volume is great for a 302 a little small for a 350 and junk for a 400. 200 cc's is the min. and that only for a tow veh. or mild street / strip. Change your heads to the dart 200 cc sportsman or larger and along with the exh. I think you'll be happy. The scat crank is comparable to the eagle cast crank for $200 or so right? if thats the one then the cast cranks from GM hold up a lot better. We've seen several of those cheap cranks snap in mild street engines. We won't use those cranks, maybe for a stock rebuild they would be OK but thats all the further I'd trust them. The HD truck engines were the 350's with non treated steel cranks. 10 - 30 series 350 4bbl engines had cast cranks. I don't know if the adds you see already have the core cost added to the price or not, but if it wasn't for that core charge I'd have a lot more 4 bolters in my barn. I never saw a pipe nipple or coolant valve block the passage as you describe, but if there wasn't a complaint I wasn't looking, interesting possibility. We didn't have many overheating complaints either, but once an engine gets a bad rap it's hard to correct. The 410's we use in the sprint car make over 700 HP, no other n.a. sbc can do anywhere near that, and we plug the steam holes, pump by-pass, and core holes in the deck, [.125" hole drilled thru the plug] and add an inch of fill to the jacket, and they don't overheat unless something is screwed up. A friend built a 406 to put in his 3800# car about 10 years ago. He used a 509 010 020 block 2 bolt with ARP's factory cast crank, early [thicker] stock 350 rods and very heavy trw's with pins thicker and heavier than anything I'd seen before. He used brownfield 220 spread centerline heads and .675 int/.625 exh mech. roller from a top nozzle sprint car. I helped him assemble this then and told him he was building a grenade. That was 10 years ago, we raced the car for three years and the engine is still together. If I look at a moroso slide calculator it says 460 hp to the wheels to make 4000# go 11.50 quarter mile et, the engine dyno said a little over 550 if I remember right. This is why I'm a believer in GM castings, something doesn't add up when the chinese can cast a crank, machine it then ship it across an ocean mark it up and sell it for a little more than $200. We pay around $100 to have a crank ground and the last I checked it was $450 for a new cast crank thru GM. PM me your engine specs and I'll run them thru a computer program we use, so far it's been within 5% of the numbers we get off the engine dyno so I trust it. I'll see if I can tell you the best head and tube size etc.

 

[Fran Preve]

1911: what you say is all correct, but you build beyond me, and for good reason. As far as the cranks are concerned, I'd trust a SCAT but have heard about people having problems with some "no name" cranks. The comment on the rods was a good one, I just found out about the lighter small block rod recently.

Go back to my comment that a 400 is a big block, and it is!. Basically it's a 396 bore and stroke (let's not quibble about .010 crank spec's). My point being and your comment is that 170's are SMALL for this size motor. At least the S/R's are 2.02/1.60's. I'd be very interested in how a Vortec would run, they put them on 383's, even with the 1.94/1.50's. I've never read an engine test with Vortec's that they didn't add significant horsepower. That said, I'm a cheap son of a B, but 200 Sportsmans or a Canfield aluminum may be in my future.

The 400 I'm working with right now is in a 1979 Corvette street/strip car. I have a major limit caused by hood height, I WANT an Air-Gap but could never close the hood. Even an RPM with a 1/2 wood spacer is dicey. If it wasn't a Vette and I was starting from scratch it would be a 383 with and Air-Gap and Vortecs.

I'll PM you with Van engine specs.

 

[supernova]

i have a full roller 406 with dart 230cc iron eagle heads(2.05/1.168 valves), weiand stealth intake,crane cam(.600/.625 lift), gear drive,holley 750 mechanical secondary and of course the msd ignition (must have for a race motor) that 1911 and brisbane put together for me this baby screams!