409

Hardy 1955

Member
Hello
I bought a new one in the U.S. built 409 engine.
Unfortunately, he does not run well, so I want him now dismantled and re-build again.
The motor power should be between 400-450 hp, what components do I need?
Here is the original text of the seller:
Ok Gentleman here it is, this is a RARE 65 impala JB code engine, which translates to 1965 impala 340 horse 4 barrel 4 speed M/T.. There were not many of these manufactored in 65 because mid year they went to the 396. This is a true 340 horse CAR engine, not a truck engine, you can tell by the picture of the cylinders, there are no reliefs cut out on the car engines like the trucks have. I bought this engine for a 65 impala SS project that i dont think i will ever get done, and i am thinking about selling the car also on a later auction, this engine has all new components, it has new pistons, oil pump, bearings, timing chain and gears, performance cam, new lifters, rebuilt heads, even has new old stock push rods never run before. It has the bigger 817 heads that came on the impalas, and a if not new not much time on the rodchester Q jet carb, looks really clean, also has disturtor with all new points condenser, rotor, cap, wires, plugs. The exhaust manifolds are the big 2 &1/2 inch O.D. outlets in great shape with all good studs, this engine was built by me for me so i know whats in it. Valve covers are in really nice shape and if you look at the oil pan you will see that it is the triple hump pan built just for the 65 impalas, that alone was a 350 dollar investment. The cam is close to the legendy Z-11 grind so it will have power and a good lobe to it, should wake up your 65 impala or any other project that you are working on if you dont want a matching number engine. The engine was 30 over when i got it and had a few pits in a couple of cylinders, they cleaned up nice at 60 over, dont be alarmed at that, these engines can be bored up to 125 thousands, and with todays oil will last a life time with proper maintainance. Even the intake manifold was taken apart and completely cleaned under the heat sheild where many rebuilders seem to forget about and leave all the old burnt oil that is trapped on the underside. This is one Kick *** engine that i have to sell for lack of money these days.
Casting numbers are block 3857656....suffix code stamp reads T1211JB... exhaust manifolds are 3767583, and 3788604, heads are 817'S with a 24 date code
mit freundlichen Grüssen Hardy
 

jim_ss409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
Welcome to the site Hardy.:cheers
The 65 passenger car 409 is more rare than most of the other years so that's a good thing but it's the 340hp version rather than the "high performance" 400hp engine.
The 817 heads are fine but they fall into the "low performance" category. The ports are fairly small. If the engine is running fine, a new intake manifold and maybe a different cam and a set of headers should get you into the 400hp range.
In order to get up in the 450hp range you could port the heads and install bigger valves or you could just go out and get a new set of aluminum heads from Edelbrock or Bob Walla.
I didn't see any mention of the builder using forged pistons so you might also run into a problem with the valve reliefs not being deep enough for a bigger cam. Cast pistons aren't very strong so you might be best to stay below 400hp if that's what you have.
A lot also depends on how you want the engine to run and how you intend to use it. If you want it to idle fairly smoothly and you're going to drive the car long distances you'll probably be best to just do a few modifications to what you've got and settle for a nice running 375hp engine. If you don't care too much about gas mileage and street manners you can build a 409 with well over 450hp. Of course 450 plus horsepower is going to cost more.
We have a lot of guys on this site that have built engines in a bunch of different horsepower ranges so I'm sure you'll get some good suggestions.
 

k9hotrodder409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 15
Welcome to the site Hardy.:clap As you can see,any questions you may have will be answered correctly as soon as possible.:scratch:?
:crazy:cool::cheers
 

Hardy 1955

Member
Hello
First of all, thanks for the replies.
what should you consider when a 3x2 mounted carburetor system on the already described 409 engine?
Greeting Hardy
 

johnnyrod

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Welcome aboard love the 409 you got. The tri power might not be enough for the 450 hp you want. Some one else wiser than me could tell you. But the tri power looks so good its a hard choice. Good luck
 

jim_ss409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
Ray (Fathead Racing) used to have a 409 with small heads and tripower in his 60 Impala. It ran really well. I think it must have been putting out at least 400hp.:scratch
 

Hardy 1955

Member
Hello
Again, the question can now install a system of dr.409 Tripower carburetor on a 409 engine (340 HP) with 3830817 cylinder heads?
Greeting Hardy
 

Skip FIx

Well Known Member
I'm pretty sure all the low performance 409 heads will take a 348 tripower manifold. There are alot of folks that can help tune them. Most tripowers run off the center carb for idle and the end carbs just kick in with a progressive linkage for the best results. Some use vacuum to kick them in but a progressive mechanical works the best.

Many of the Pontiac tri power manifolds can feed decent HP, I'm not sure if the 348 manifolds are more restrictive. There are a number of posts on www.performanceyears.com forums in tuning tripowers. LOTS of the GTO guys still use them.
 

petepedlar

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
If you do a search on here for "tripower" you will find pages & pages of reading.

Dave
 

petepedlar

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
The 817 heads would be a good choice for a tripower engine.........

just my opinion........
I think 400 HP is within reach but I don't know if you will get very much over that. The 817's will easily handle all the air you can get through the tripower intake. The old tripower intake looks very cool but is not the best intake for making power. It could be improved somewhat with some porting to smooth out some of the square corners inside.

Dave
 

Hardy 1955

Member
Hello
Unfortunately I had to go to the measure of the camshaft find that these significantly different.
The intake and exhaust are usually measured from 0 to 8.1mm hub with a dial indicator directly on the camshaft.
The lift of the intake cam from: Cylinders 2 makes only 0 to 7.8 mm / 4 cylinder only 0 to 7.2 mm, 5 cylinder only from 0 to 7.6 mm.
Now for my questions to the experts:
1) what would be the best new camshaft
2) what would be the easiest and best combination of carburetor and intake manifold
Standard engine is a 409 HP 340 Built in 1965 with the small heads 817
Greetings from Germany
Hardy
PS: unfortunately I do not speak English, this is a Google translation, I hope it is understandable:
 

Hardy 1955

Member
Hi
Again, the question to the engine specialists.
Since I anyway have to install a new camshaft, which would, in your opinion, a good combination for a 409 with 340 hp.
From Tripower carburetor I have strayed, I'm with the setting too difficult, I'm looking for a simple solution with good torque and quiet running engine.
I need: intake manifold, carburetor, camshaft
Best regards Hardy
 

DonSSDD

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
What intake do you have now? Post the casting number and the date code, or pictures of any numbers on it?

What carb do you have now? You said a Q Jet, which is not a 409 carb, so maybe it is a 4 Jet? Post pictures of it and or the numbers you find on it.

If you are not using the tri power, maybe what you have now will work OK.

Don
 
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