Block,piston nothc CCs

Skip FIx

Well Known Member
Ronnie I agree a deeper relief on the intake, not sure why they made mine so shallow. You tell them engine specs bore stroke, rod length and CR then their engineers make it up.

One thing on the slot liek Barry's and others vs circular relief you lose a click of quench area and compression ratio(more cc in the slot). Probably not significant but some.
 
One thing about the slot cut from the side, vs the circular or the slot across like I prefer...
There is a bit of a "danger" on quick ramp, long duration cams, where the valves can be off the seats .200" or more at overlap. As the piston leaves TDC with the intake valve opening, the valve is "chasing" it. Trouble is, the piston isn't moving just straight down from the valve. It's also moving "inward" . You'll find that the edge of the valve can clip the outer edge of the round or "power slot" style valve relief. A little "massage" may be necessary.
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Aubrey, I couldn't agree more about the slot type being more efficient but as you describe, there is a danger in the exhaust valve relief area. As one who has noticed lateral valve movement, that scares me some. Enough to use clay to verify orientation clearance. Not just slot type pistons but on everything. The picture of Skips JEs show little clearance for a big cam but on the other hand, less sharp edges and more of a "flatter" piston top. I think all the experts agree a flat top piston produces better flame spread compared to a raised dome or even valve reliefs. So, the down side to his pistons is the lower dome height meaning lower c.r....... Has he enough c.r. for his needs? Yes, great dyno numbers. Could the hp be more with a higher dome and higher c.r. ? Yes. Could he install a cam with more duration? No way, without some work on the pistons. A real balancing act as to what is best for each engine. The Ross pistons I used in my engine had .150 ex. valve reliefs. I ordered them that way. I assumed .150 would be plenty for the ex. Wrong. Mock up showed way too little clearance, so , back to the machine shop to have reliefs deepened an additional .080.......... Now, the cam is .735 lift and 272 @ .050 ex. A traditional .650 lift, 250@.050 would have been a different story. The dome height of the pistons are about .650. Tried to get all the c.r. I could for race only. A piston with .400 dome height would also have required a lot less ex. valve relief. Again, all about balance. Whats best for a particular application. I'll post a pic of my pistons and you will notice no problem with ex valve lateral clearance. Them suckers are deep and wide. Downside? Less c.r.......... But, some peace of mind. I have a habit of erring on too much clearance. Cost me hp for sure, but I try not to gamble with parts banging into each other. I have collected a list of many sets of pistons that I have used over the years and some from other members, comparing dome heights. Its been interesting to me but boring to most. From what I can tell, 11 to 1 c.r. and lower usually have a .350 to .450 dome height. .450 to .550 11 to 1 to 12 to 1....... Now, that is a rough way to look at it because there are other factors determining final c.r. Bottom line? a normal street build 348 or 409 with 11 to 1 ( ordered) or less will be furnished by the piston maker with sufficient valve clearance. Its only when you want to move up to more c.r. and big cam that one can get into trouble.
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
mymotor003.jpg
 

BSL409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 6
rsz_gear_box_piston.jpg This piston for the new engine had a dome height of about .870 and still only at 12.4 c.r.
 

Skip FIx

Well Known Member
My intake reliefs are 2.40 OD.

One down side on a big dome on our engines vs a SB/BB is it is more to one side vs the center causing a little more side loading there.
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Brian, If you don't mind, can you re-check your spec. sheet? .675 sounds about right, .870 sounds a little high. If .870 is correct, then I need to start re-thinking the subject. Thanks
 

BSL409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 6
Brian, If you don't mind, can you re-check your spec. sheet? .675 sounds about right, .870 sounds a little high. If .870 is correct, then I need to start re-thinking the subject. Thanks

Ronnie,
The .675 was for the JE pistons the new pitons are custom made from a billet blank
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Brian, thanks for the reply. That makes sense. As I stated, I know little about piston design. I have a hard enough time trying to decipher "off the shelf" pistons,,,, starting with a billet blank is waaaaay over my head. Thanks again.
 

Skip FIx

Well Known Member
JE is supposed to e mail me a diagram on how they get their specs. Teh tech guy said hemi dome piston reliefs also have a "different" measurement.

My guess since my pistons have I would guess at least .100 intake notch from the picture and their sheet based on "deck" says 0.001, I am guessing they use a straight across 90 degree to the piston skirt starting at the top edge of the piston as the reference point. Our 16 degree wedge adds height as you go away from the top edge even at zero deck. Why I think the exhaust with no notch is listed as +0.350.

Sure hard to compare where you actually are for depth in relation to the piston top unless you measure it-but maybe gives them a better way to tell where they are.

How are BBC dome pistons valve relief depths listed from piston manufacturers?
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Wow !! You won't see that piston in a catalogue. I see why the .870 dome now !! That is some fancy high-tech stuff. Thanks, Brian
 

Skip FIx

Well Known Member
Looks liek a high tech version of the old Jahns "Fireslots". Kind of has quench area even on the downside.
 
Brian, I have to ask.... the outside wall of the "high side" of the dome.... is it straigt up and down ? ... or does it taper in, to allow combustion pressure to get on the outside of it ?
 

1961BelAir427

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
I stopped getting updates on this one and hadn't seen the last page of posts. Awesome pictures and info everyone.
 
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