Bought a 350 short block..

[pappoo07]

Hi guys, it's me again. I went to that swap meet on Friday, but didn't find any 350s that were worth spending my money on. So on the way home, me and my dad were discussing what to do now, and I said I'll probably just buy a long block out of jegs or summit. But my dad asked why I was going with a long block, and suggested I get a short block instead. And you know what.. that makes a lot of sense! My 283 heads are in good condition, so getting a long block didn't make much sense.

So as soon as I came home, I checked the catalogs for short blocks, but was pretty displeased at the prices. So then I searched ebay, and came across a short block in real nice shape that was ready to drop in and go. The auction was ending the next morning so I bid on it for the hell of it and wound up winning it for $350. I figured for that price I can't go wrong. From what I understand, my 283's heads, intake, manifolds, water pump, and dist should all bolt right up to the 350 block. I just want to double check that with the experts before I do anything. The short block should be arriving early next week, so I've got some time to figure everything out. The only thing I'm concerned about are the push rods I need. Will my old 283 push rods work? The short block comes with a 480 lift hydraulic cam and the heads I will be using are stock 283 heads. I do have a brand new set of 5/16 stock 283 push rods laying around if I need them. Not sure what kind of rods are in my 283 now though.

Alright.. any input/suggestions will be welcomed. And as always, go easy on me.

 

[Ed51]

What size are your valves and are your combustion chambers large enough so it doesn't ping? Will the valves be large enough to allow the 350 to breath?
I had a .480+ lift cam in a 350 a long time ago that would bend stock pushrods,and that was cured by screw-in studs,guideplates and hardened pushrods.
One thing I keep discovering about this"hobby" is it really does NOT pay in the long run to be cheap.It always comes back to bite you on the @$$ later.

 

[pappoo07]

Stock heads. Stock combustion chambers, not sure if previous owner changed the valves when he rebuilt it.

I called a local machine shop to see what he suggested, and as luck would have it, he said he was rebuilding a set of early 70s 350 heads. $300 for the pair: valves, springs and all. Told him I was interested and would probably buy them off him. Not too sure about how they will perform, but at this point I'm just worried about getting a running engine in the car. Mods will come later. Hopefully the guy at the machine shop will set me up with the proper push rods.

So now that I got the head issue squared away.. should all the other 283 parts bolt on to the 350 with no problems?

Thanks.

 

[1911]

Chevy made both left and right dipstick blocks, I would suggest buying a new pan and timing cover and an 8" balancer. The pan you need depends on where the dipstick is. You may need a new dipstick and tube. '68 and earlier balancers timing marks are retarded 8 degrees compared to the 69 and later, so make sure your timing marks reflect true TDC. Check cam timing, at minimum make sure the marks line up, if the bottom gear has three keyways then use the "0" keyway. Check the oil pick up to pan bottom clearance, if high volume pump use a driveshaft with a steel sleeve. ID the cam to know what valvesprings the machine shop needs to install. If double springs then think about screw in studs, especially if 1.440" or larger. Most aftermarket cams are ground to a reduced base circle so you will have to check to see if std. length pushrods will work, Jegs sells a checking tool #778-66789 for $13.00 which fits 3/8 studs. Intake will fit, better seal the ends with silicone not the rubber end seals as you don't know if the blocks been decked or heads resurfaced. You will probably need a balancer bolt and washer as I doubt your 283 was tapped. If your running exh. manifolds then the 283's are too small for max power, if you intend to use them then make sure the bolt pattern on the heads match [end bolts]. You can approximate static compression ratio once you know piston numbers and chamber volume by looking up the piston # in the piston mfg. catalog, otherwise you have to cc everything and do the math. 71 chevy dropped compression for unleaded/ smogger crap, 76cc chambers, casting #'s would be helpful. If the heads have guide slots for the pushrods then make sure the slots are long enough so the pushrods don't bind, if you go to screw in studs then open the slots and use guide plates. You remember how I feel about trusting other peoples work? see if your machine shop is willing to look this thing over. Water pump, pulleys flywheel/ flexplate etc. should all work

 

[pappoo07]

As always 1911 is full of information! Thanks.

The engine isn't being shipped until monday, so I'll be getting it sometime between Weds-Fri.

I ran into a friend last night who is big on this kind of stuff. Unfortunately he's into imports now but he still seems pretty knowledgable with the work I plan on doing and knows about all the parts I'll be needing. Once I recieve the block and heads I'm going to call him up and hopefully he will lend me a hand. He will most likely be able to walk me through everything and know which parts I will need to get the engine running properly. Of course, if I run into any snags, I'll be sure to post here.

Thanks for the help everyone. Hopefully my friend will teach me a few things once this is all done with.

 

[Southtowns27]

What intake do you have? If it's the stock 2 barrel with the really tiny ports it won't work on the 350...It can't flow anywhere near enough volume to get any kind of power out of it. I have a nicely built 283 and I tried one of those small manifolds on it, swapped it out after 200 miles for an AirGap intake and 600cfm 4 barrel. Also, what exhaust manifolds do you have? If you've got centerdumps put those on! Make sure you tell the head machinist that you have a .480 lift cam!!! On some heads, the valve guides are tall enough for the valve retainer to hit with high lift cams. It's easy to fix, just mill the guides down, but it needs to be done before everything is assembled. Pushrod lenght shouldn't be a really huge issue unless the block has been decked or the heads been shaved a lot. Do you know the casting number of your new shortblock? If you do we can figure out if it has a driver or passenger side dipstick. If it's a driver side stick the 283 pan will fit. Timing cover is the same, water pump will bolt up, and the distributor will drop right in.

 

[pappoo07]

Hey sorry SouthTowns.. didn't see your reply until now. The intake on my 283 is a 65 327 4bbl. As for exhaust manifolds, I would guess they are stock 283 manifolds from 64, since I discovered that the dates on the heads and block match. The numbers on the exhaust manifolds are pretty much impossible to read. I told the machinist about the cam, and he built the heads accordingly. I picked up the set on Tuesday.

Now for the fun stuff.. I finally got the shortblock today. It is a little worse than I expected it to be (not as nice as the pictures!) but I think it will work. It actually came with a big balancer (at least 6" in diameter), an oil pan, an oil pump, and a timing cover. There seems to be grease in the lifter shafts and theres some light surface rust in some of the cylinder walls. I haven't gotten a chance yet to take the oil pan off. Hoping it will be nice and clean inside. The only work I did tonight was attached the flywheel and the pulleys. I have to get a gasket set tomorrow and my dad said he would attach the heads while I'm at school for my class on Monday nights.

One thing we were confused about is the PVC valve (or is it PCV?). I think on the 283 block it attached to the block behind the intake, but there's no spot for it on the 350 block. My dad said I might need 350 valve covers that have the PVC valve on them. Is this true?

Other than that no other issues have come up yet. The casting number on the block is 3970010. The engine ID number is V1210TYW I think. Some of the numbers might be wrong. There was a number to the left of the ID which read C57135658. Can't figure out what that number means.

Also, for 1911, my 283 was tapped so I got the balancer bolt and washer taken care of. I'm going to show my dad your post. He is more capable of checking all that stuff than me. I will post the head casting number soon. I'm too lazy to check them right now. My 283 heads had guide plates on them and I plan to use them on the 350 heads. I'm sticking with the 283 ex manifolds for now, and if the engine turns out the be good, then I will upgrade.

It sucks because I will be working 38 hours this week (part time job!) and I also have finals for school. However I still plan on somehow completing the engine this week. I'm hoping to have most of it done by Wednesday, or at least have the engine assembled and in the car by then. Wish me luck!

 

[Fran Preve]

Poo07: It's a truck block, no big deal. The heads are 76 cc so the compression is OK. The balancer sounds line a 6 and 3/4, fine for your use, you don't need an 8". See if you can have the exhaust ports on the manifolds hogged out to match the exhaust ports on the heads, they're only 2" but again fine for your use. a .480 lift cam is a little big for what you want but all it means is a little rough idle, again, not "right" but alright. Don't worry about the valve springs, a .480 lift cam won't cause interference. You need a set of cheap chrome 350 valve covers, or take ANY small block valve cover with PCV openings, clean it, and paint it orange.

Guys, the kids bucks down and building a cheap STREET engine, no racing, no high RPM use, just everyday type driving. Don't "over science" the guy, it's jst a drive to work engine.

Poo: you have basically a 350 4 barrel truck motor with a .480 lift cam, your not into it for a whole lot, your learning something, it's just about what we talked about before. You've got help, your gonna be OK. But good luck (just in case!).

 

[1911]

283/327 used a road draft crankcase vent, your dad is correct, you need covers for a PCV system. Positive crankcase ventilation is what it means. I would still check to make sure that the timing marks are accurate, etc... The 3970010 block was used for many years {69-80} and could be 2 bolt or 4 bolt, grey iron or nodular caps, high nickel or not. If 010 020 are both found under the timing cover or at the back of the block or above the filter pad [very small cast numbers above the pad] then you have the more desirable high tin, high nickel block 1% more tin, 2% more nickel. TYW = 75 ls-9 165 hp 350 4bbl 2wd truck, should be a 4 bolt, cast crank, grey iron cap, you said you attached the flywheel, not flexplate so you must have a manual trans, don't forget a pilot bushing. Now's the time to check this thing over, I can't stress this point enough! Used sbc intakes are plentiful and cheap, and most aftermarket dual planes will flow more air than the manifold you have, there were four different intake casting numbers used that year, that I know of. The stock balancer used in 75 on the 350 was the 8", look the face over to make sure it wasn't driven on with a hammer, check the rubber isolating ring for swelling or dryrot. If the cam timing is a tooth off then you will bend pushrods and or valves, so check it. The felpro 1 piece pan gasket should work on this combination, did you have plenty of oil pan sump to crossmember clearance? You should check this now also and don't forget the oil pick up to pan bottom clearance when you have the pan off. Anyway, I'm rambling on, so good luck! keep me posted.

 

[pappoo07]

Fran, I appreciate the encouragement. I'm kind of enjoying this and am actually learning a thing or 2. I still plan on buying a SBC rebuild book to educate myself. I'm going to have to get a pair of those valve covers with the PCV system on them.
I just asked my dad how everything went tonight, and he said the engine is ready to be put in! He's the man. He cleaned up the block with some carb cleaner, attached the heads, intake, lifters, push rods, and rockers.

He seems pretty confident that the timing marks are set. I printed out 1911's post and showed him, but he said it won't need to be done. Just by looking at it he said it looks like someone already set it.

The block is a 4 bolt 010 high nickel block. I'm not sure how much work I'll get done tomorrow since I have school all day and promised the GF we would hang out at night . But it will most definitely be completely in by Wednesday because I got 2 buddies on standby to help me out if I need them. I can't wait!!

 

[pappoo07]

Well, everything is in. My dad pretty much banged everything out while I was working all weekend. He adjusted the rocker arms tonight and says everything is ready to go. I haven't had the chance to hear it run yet, but my dad says it sounds good. He ran it for 10-15 minutes the other night with no problems. Exhaust was clean, no rough idle. I plan on taking the car off the jack stands and maybe taking it for a test run tomorrow. I will first have to figure out how to put the hood back on by myself, unless I wait for my dad to get home, or unless I just drive it without the hood and hope no cops stop me. I'm hoping all will go well and the block will hold oil pressure. Then I will be one happy camper.

Quick question though.. how much oil are the pushrods supposed to spit out? In my old 283, the rods would spit oil all over the place, but I couldn't stop the rocker arms from clacking. It turned out that a few of the lifters were collapsed so I bought new lifters and that solved the clacking problem, but there was a significant decrease in the amount of oil the pushrods shot out. I was just wondering if this was normal. My dad said there wasn't a whole lot of oil shooting from the pushrods in the new engine either. I'm just hoping this isn't a sign that this block isn't going to hold oil pressure either.

I will be sure to give an update tomorrow if I do a test run.

 

[SteveD409]

Had a 454 once that didn't squirt much oil at the rockers-finally ended up replacing rockers and pushrods. Didn't take the time to figure out which one was causing the problem, maybe both together. Just figured there was enough wear so that the hole in the rocker wasn't getting to the point where it lined up with the hole in the top of the pushrod. Is that possible?

SteveD

 

[Southtowns27]

There shouldn't be tons of oil running all over the place, just enough to get the job done.

 

[pappoo07]

Well, test drive was generally a success. The engine had great pick up, and the oil pressure never dropped below 15 lbs all day. It stayed above 40 while the car was in motion. The only problem was the water temp. It stayed around 230 most of the time, and actually reached 260 while sitting in line at a fast food drive through. There's only water in the car now, I'm hoping antifreeze will cool it down some, but I'm sure my problem lies deeper than that. I will have to explore some things to figure out what it could be. My dad suggested taking the thermostat out?

Well, now that I know the internals of the block are good, I'm gonna look at getting better heads and maybe better exhaust manifolds. Possibly vortec heads and intake, but I will take my time deciding that. The bottom line is I (my dad mostly) got the car running with a reliable engine and spent less than $900. I'm one happy camper over here!! I can't thank you guys enough for your help and guidance! THANKS!!!

 

[Fran Preve]

Do NOT, repeat NOT take thermostat out!. That will cause it to run HOTTER!, water doesn't have time to cool in the radiator. Put in a 160 degree thrmostat.
Run only a LITTLE antifreeze if it's not going to go below zero, water, plain water cools best (but ALWAYS run a water pump lube if your running plain water). Anything OVER a 50/50 mix wil cause cooling problems, antifreeze is NOT a good coolant. I would put NO MORE than a gallon of antifreeze in in any event.

What temperature SENDING unit are you using?. The gauge may not be reading right if the gage and sender don't match.

160 thermostat, then
turn on the heater so water is flowing thru it
put in SOME anti freeze, less than a gallon
run the engine until the thermostat opens, good heat from heater (put it on defrost and run blower0
shut it down LET IT COOL!, then top it off, WHEN COOL.
If your not running a coolant recovery system put on on it, and be sure you change to a closed system CAP too!.

That should solve any problems you might have.

Oil pressure should be 15-20 lbs at idle, 45 at 2000 rpm, 40 is Ok, 35 is too but no lower. GM says 35-45 for a normal engine, a later model or high performance may go to 55-60 but you don't NEED it. I've been running 35 hot for 20,000 miles on my tow vehicle, but it has 110,000 miles on it. Any less and I'd be worried.

PS: did you clean the pushrods, blow air thru them to make sure their clean?. Hold up to light and look thru hole. Yes, oil should be squirting out, that's why they sell oil deflectors to cover them while adjusting the valves.

 

[Southtowns27]

To add to Fran's post:

He's absolutely correct about water being a better coolant. You might also want to try some "Water Wetter." I've had good success with it in my racecar. It's a water additive that breaks the surface tension of the water allowing the water to make better contact with the surfaces of the engine and radiator allowing for a better heat transfer process.

Again, do NOT take the thermostat out! It'll run really hot then. Make sure your gauge and sending unit are matched if they are electric. You might want to install a mechanical gauge too, I much prefer them over electric.
The only thing that Fran said that I disagree with is the thermostat temp. I'd put a 195 in it instead of the 160. I was having a heat problem in my Willys with a 160 thermostat, it always ran at about 220. My engine builder suggested going to a 195 thermostat. The reason being that the 195 will spend more time closed, keeping the water in the radiator longer allowing it to cool. I swapped mine for a 195 and now it runs at about 185.

I just thought of this; what kind of fan are you running and do you have a fan shroud? How big is your radiator? How many rows?

For your exhaust, you could try to find a pair of old "Centerdump" exhaust manifolds, but prepare to get out your wallet. They were the best flowing of the SBC exhaust manifolds. Otherwise, I'm sure there are inexpensive headers available for your application. What was this going in again? I forgot already...
Yes, you get what you pay for, but for your application you could realistically find headers for ~$100

As far as oil pressure, a good rule of thumb is 10 lbs per 1000 engine rpm. Yours sounds pretty healthy to me. Glad to hear it worked out for you

 

[pappoo07]

Hey guys. I know it's been a while but I'll just give everyone an update. I've been running the car without a thermostat for about a week now (shame on me!) but haven't had any problems. It actually lowered my water temp slightly. The old thermostat seemed to be faulty because my dad put it over the stove for a few minutes and it barely opened half way. With no thermostat, the water hasn't gone above 230. That happened on a 90 degree day while sitting in a fast food drive thru. In the past week, the weather has been in the 70s and 80s and my water temp has been in the 200-210 range. One night it actually stayed below 200. My dad bought me a 160 degree thermostat, but I want to get a 190 instead. I plan on buying it and putting it in this week.

Other than that, the engine is running great. Oil pressure is great, I'm actually getting 20 lbs of pressure for every 1000 rpm. The only problem now (besides water temp) is my exhaust. It sounds like I have a leak around my heat riser, and one of the tail pipes is thumping loudly against the frame and the car decelerates and idles. I got the exhaust done from a reputable shop 3 years ago but they sure did a sh!tty job! Leaks all around the mufflers... they need to learn how to weld and seal holes!

But anyway, I think I'm gonna hold out on the vortech heads for now, unless you guys think they will improve my gas milage. As I said, there's mid 70s stock 350 heads on it right now. Gas mileage is decent, but with the price of gas nowadays, I'm lookin for all the help i can get!

Thanks again for all the help you guys have offered me. I don't know what I'd do without you!

 

[dq409]

Good news on your engine but you still need to lower that temp.
I would go with a thermostat in the 180 range and get on made by Mr. Gasket.
They are the high flow type and seem to be very dependable and about the same price.

You could also try and find an electic fan at the local wreaking yard to install on the front of your radiator.

around here at the U-Pull-Its they go for cheap !! ,,, good luck ,,dq






JMO.

 

[Fran Preve]

I still say a 160, definately NOT a 190!. If you must a 180. Forget the Vortec's, they won't help your gas mileage, and for your engine you don't need them. For gas mileage just make sure your ignition is up to snuff, and then keep your foot out of it!. If you can. Powerglide is hurting you, I'd slap a 350 in it before doing anything to the motor.

 

[oil4kids]

160 no no

a 160 stat is good for you incoming gas/air charge but actually you will end up wearing out the cylinder liners faster and create more drag in the engine since the cylinders will grow larger with the 190 stat and decrease cylinder wall drag upon the pistons