Clutch troubles!!!

[bobs409]

I just got back from a real rotten ride with the 66 Chevelle.

I'm going to do my best to describe this but it's stange and not easy to tell.

When I first put this 4 speed conversion together, the clutch felt great. I was able to smoothly go in any gear, even first while still moving which is a luxury I've never had before. (new trans I'm assuming)

After a few rides/days, I thought it was just me but progressively, things seemed to get worse. I noticed a little harder to go into the gears and the clutch pedal seemed to be getting less and less travel. Felt like it was getting more free play at the top and less actual push at the lower end. (does that make sense?) I never grinded any gears until the other day when I tried to get into reverse to park in my garage. I had to shut the car off and put it in reverse. It would not go no way, no how. (like the clutch was not going in all the way)

Thinking that perhaps my Z bar might have been moved up out of the bracket? or just needing a clutch adjustment, I got under it a few times so far and checked. Z bar is still where I had it so I adjusted the clutch. Worked great for a few miles, then in the middle of a ride, I had troubles getting it in gear again like the clutch wasn't going in all the way. I just parked it for a few days to work on the other car. Today I decided to see if I could figure this out so I got the car out this morning and drove it a few miles and it felt fine again. I got under it again and checked the Z bar and linkage, all looked ok. I adjusted the clutch more because it felt like it needed improvment.

Took it out for a ride and it was working great again. Then about an hour later, I decided to take it for a longer ride. After about 15 miles into that ride, something changed in the feel of the clutch. (this is not the first time it changed like that) I came to a red light and could hardly get it out of gear. Had to shut if off to get into first to pull out again and shifting through the gears was tough, had to force it a bit. (no grinding though)

So I had to make my way home like that. Every stop sign or red light, I had to shut the car off and force it into 1st. (the last time, I couldn't get into ANY gear and cars were lining up behind me. Finally I got it into 1st then hit the key and with the clutch right to the floor, the car was actually pulling out! Needless to say, my temper got the better of me and those back tires really can scream! :eek:

It's still that way as I type this, the car drives with the clutch pedal in. I pulled it into my garage with the clutch pedal to the floor!

My best "guess" is there is something funky with the pressure plate or clutch in general. These problems seem to occur when things get good and hot on a long ride. I'm letting it cool for a few hours and might give a test to see if I'm right on that.


So I know we have alot of people here familiar with clutches. WHAT CAN THIS BE???? I can't be the only one that has had this wierd problem.


Just so you know, I cheaped out and went with a Duralast clutch/pressure plate set. I did so because I put one in my truck and it's working fine a year later so thought I'd try another.


Please submit ANY ideas!

 

[Don Jacks]

HI,Bob,I could be mistaken,but I suspect the diapram pressure plate.This could explain the constantly having to adjust clutch linkage.Also while it's apart ,If youre using a pilot bushing in the crank,check it closely for fit to the input shaft.If you are using a roller bearing,check it for roughness.I once had that problem with a car that had a clutch replacement,and they had not changed the roller type pilot bearing,and it had locked up.The clutch wouldnt work for crap.

 

[58 Apache]

Rememger The Hoise

:? I just went thru all your old post when you put the thing together. The first thing is your restart after cool down and how heat related this is. I just wonder what happened with the metal from your dust cover noise? But everything points to the preasure plate.

 

[62impala409]

Bob, I agree that the pressure plate went away. The diaphragm went soft or broke. My old problem is somewhat related to your problem, I experienced a hard pedal when the clutch got up to normal operating temp. The more I drove on any given day, the higher the pedal effort and shifting difficulty. Read the GM shop manual very carefully on clutch replacement. THE SPLINES NEED A WIPE OF WHEEL BEARING GREASE AND A LITTLE GREASE ON THE INPUT SHAFT CONE FOR THE THROWOUT BEARING. I had assembled the clutch dry to avoid getting grease on the plate. Apparently the hot steel does not slide well on dry splines. A slight chance this caused the diaphragm to fail. I greased my splines several years ago and my old 11" has been velvet smooth ever since, hot or cold.bang Leo

 

[bobs409]

Thanks guys. I did grease the splines and the pilot bushing as they gave me a small packet of grease with the clutch kit. I don't think I put any where the throw out bearing sits though. :?

Speaking of hard clutches, this one is really hard to push in hot or cold. I have basically the same clutch in my 71 C20 and it's so much easier to push in. In fact, about a week ago, I got out of the Chevelle after driving it and had to move my truck. I darn near pushed the clutch pedal through the floor it was so easy! :eek:

I think I'm pulling the tranny then.


P.S. I went out and checked the feel of the clutch pedal since its cooled down and it still feels odd. I didn't try driving it though.

 

[bobs409]

This thing has a lifetime warranty so now the question is do I try another one or buy a more expensive name brand? :?

 

[bobs409]

I just wonder what happened with the metal from your dust cover noise?

I don't think any metal really got scraped off. It was only the tips and wasn't gouged much, just missing the black paint/coating.


Bob

 

[64ss409]

I don't think I put any where the throw out bearing sits though. :?/QUOTE]
There is a groove on the inner side of the T.O. bearing that should be filled with grease before sliding it on the trans. But that is not the problem. I guess I would disassemble and have a look.

 

[chevymusclecars]

Bob

The first thing I would check is the Z Bar, it is not unusual for them to split at the end or have the arms break loose at the welds. Have someone push the clutch in while you watch since they often spring back when the pedal is released.

Bill

 

[64ss409]

Good idea Bill
I had the weld break on one of the z bar arms on my truck last summer. At first it cracked and moved a little, not enough to see. I was not sure what was wrong so I re-adjusted the clutch. It worked for about 1/2 hour, then broke more weld.

 

[MRHP]

Check the weld on the z bar. Had mine come apart. Couldn't see it until I had someone push in the clutch while I watched the linkage action. Don't freak out just yet! Brian

 

[bobs409]

Thanks, I'll check that out tomorrow. Too late on the freaking out part though.

 

[bobs409]

I don't know about you guys. You continue to amaze me.

Sure enough, it's the Z bar. Actually, it's the ball stud that attaches to the bracket on the frame. The part of the threaded area with nut snapped off and is missing in action. :eek: So when you push the clutch in, rather than the z bar pushing the fork, the Z bar itself is lifting up.

All these parts are repro. Has anyone ever had one of these ball studs break?

I have to dig through my stuff, I think I have a Z bar from a 70 Chevelle that I can steal a spare from. This time I'm going with original equipment!

I guess you can believe me when I say the clutch is hard to push in when that part snaps off! :eek:


I sure hope I don't have to rip half the car apart to replace it.

 

[boxerdog]

still

gotta be better than swapping out the clutch!!

 

[bobs409]

I'll let you know the answer to that tomorrow.

 

[k9hotrodder409]

Hey Bob, I had that problem on my '63 "09" 4-speed and it too was the z-bar welds breaking off. Just a note . Before you install the replacement you might want to weld a pair of gussetts to strengthen the pivot arms. After I did that I never had a clutch problem with the car ( other than using up clutches chasing all those neighborhood GTO's). Good luck with the ride and most of all, be safe. NO MORE FREAKIN OUT !!! OK ?

 

[chevymusclecars]

Bob

You keep it interesting but glad to hear you are back on the road again.

I have never seen a ball break like that but have never used one that was aftermarket.

Bill

 

[62impala409]

Bob, Have you found anything that would explain the "hard clutch" you mentioned in an earlier post. Does not seem normal. You don't have linkage binding somewhere? Binding throw out bearing? Leo

 

[bobs409]

I don't know of any thing Leo. Maybe it's just normal for this one? Wish I knew of some other 4 speed Chevelles around here I could "test" out to compare.

 

[LongIsland63SS409]

Hey Bob, I had that problem on my '63 "09" 4-speed and it too was the z-bar welds breaking off. Just a note . Before you install the replacement you might want to weld a pair of gussetts to strengthen the pivot arms. After I did that I never had a clutch problem with the car ( other than using up clutches chasing all those neighborhood GTO's). Good luck with the ride and most of all, be safe. NO MORE FREAKIN OUT !!! OK ?

Bob,

Ripped off both arms about a year apart.

Did the same thing Butch did and welded gussetts onto the arms. Never a problem again.

Glad to hear you are on the road again!

Mike