Edelbrock Head Update

[BubbletopMan]

According to my guy on the inside of Edelbrock, there is a problem with the first version of the finished heads. According to him, the first set of finished heads were bolted on an engine and dynoed at a local sprint car engine shop (not at liberty to say who). The heads cracked at two head bolt bosses, I suppose one on each side. He said that the water jacket was made too tall and the team at Edelbrock are already modifying their patterns and should have a new version within the next few weeks. He said they would much rather embarass themselves now instead of the consumer (namely us) finding out the problem for them. Sorry guys, it's gonna be a little bit longer. Jeremy

 

[BROOKLYNSS409]

Hmmm!

I guess some heads are gonna roll for this failure.

:

 

[salty40]

I bought a pair of Edelbrock 409 heads Friday (3-21-08)

I read this post, and my initial elation has turned to "Oh crap". I have been harassing Edelbrock for several months concerning the release date of their 409 heads. I was told by a very patient Hispanic fella in their marketing/tech department that the release was coming in maybe late April or May, but nothing certain. No price either. I checked Summit's website Thursday night (3-20) and there was a Edelbrock aluminum 409 head - part# 350-60819. I ordered a set. I think they were $1059 each with valves and springs. Summit said I got the third set. He thought they would ship in about two weeks. I hope they have the problems figured out. I didn't even ask about a warranty. Bought a dual quad manifold from them too.

 

[salty40]

I just checked Edelbrock's website and I believe their cylinder heads have a one year conditional warranty, if they were not raced or installed improperly, etc., etc. My belief at this point is Edelbrock is a stand-up company, and I'm optimistic that they have improved on the initial head design and wouldn't ship out heads that would fail, thus causing a backlash in the motorhead "community" ruining their sales - after putting serious large amounts of R and D money into a new product. So I hope.

 

[chevytaylor]

Thanks salty40, please keep us informed.

Carl.

 

[desapience]

New Edlebrock Intake 5408 Or 5809?

Guys,

Received My New Edelbrock Intake From Summit....

Things To Note... Although The Box Declares The Intake To Be A 5409 (large Port), The Intake Itself Is Cast-stamped 5408.

Summit Lists The Edl-5408 And Edl-5409 As The Small And Large Port, Respectively. They Also State That These 2x4 Intakes Are "air-gap" Intakes...

False Advertising Folks.

Although The Intake I Have In Hand Now Is Definitely A Large-port Intake (with "ears"), It Is Stamped 5408, And It Is Not An Air-gap Design At All.

The Intake Came With A Pvc Rubber Plug And Baffle, That Mounts Near Where The Coil-mount Bracket Would Be... Place A Pvc Valve In It, And Route It To The Back Of The Back Carb.. Nice And Easy.

The Intake Also Comes Predrilled For The Oil-filler Tube, And They Also Include A CHROME Oil-filler Tube And CHROME Oil-cap (el-cheapo One)...

I Have A Choice To Make Now.. I Can Bolt This Intake Up To Bwr Aluminum Heads, Or To Mint 583's... The Bwr Heads Need Milling At The Intake Surface (~.050") Each... Decisions, Decisions.

Denis

 

[Phil Reed]

The Bwr Heads Need Milling At The Intake Surface (~.050") Each... Denis

Denis..........I think Bob has taken care of that. Shouldn't have to modify either the intake or Bob's heads. Check with him.

 

[desapience]

shaving or not shaving

Denis..........I think Bob has taken care of that. Shouldn't have to modify either the intake or Bob's heads. Check with him.

Phil,

I'll be at the shop tomorrow afternoon... and I'll take pictures of the new intake with the BWR heads, and the 583's as well. I'll try to post the pics tomorrow night.

Denis

 

[BubbletopMan]

Here's the Latest

I got a call today from my guy at Edelbrock. He said that the new castings with the revised water jackets did run on a motor at the aforementioned sprint car engine shop over the weekend. According to him, the engine had some kind of fuel injection system on it (Algon, I'm guessing), and was in the neighborhood of 468 c.i.. He said the dyno numbers were (drum roll): 500 hp, 560 ft-lbs torque. He didn't give me any more specifics on the engine combination or whether the heads were ported or not. Good street numbers anyway. That's it for now, "All the news that's fit to print!" Later, Guys! Jeremy

 

[BARRYS770]

I noticed that the complete Edelbrock head will only handle a valve lift of .550". This would preclude the use of any very high lift camshaft profile. Anyone desiring to make serious horsepower numbers may need to redo the heads to accomodate the higher lifts associated with aggressive camshaft profiles.

Barry

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

I noticed that the complete Edelbrock head will only handle a valve lift of .550". This would preclude the use of any very high lift camshaft profile. Anyone desiring to make serious horsepower numbers may need to redo the heads to accomodate the higher lifts associated with aggressive camshaft profiles.

Barry

Well, another mechanical oximoron

I'm thinking that it's probably just the valve springs that would be creating the limitation . Man, a factory 64/65 400/425 horse cam has just about that lift:takethat

 

[boxerdog]

If I read the ad right, the .550 limit only applies to usage on 348 blocks, probably because of the valve size and location and the smaller bore. I don't think it necessarily is a spring pack issue.

Simple enough to make your own notch or use a truck block (or a 409).

 

[Thirdyfivepickup]

Summit Lists The Edl-5408 And Edl-5409 As The Small And Large Port, Respectively. They Also State That These 2x4 Intakes Are "air-gap" Intakes...

False Advertising Folks.

Although The Intake I Have In Hand Now Is Definitely A Large-port Intake (with "ears"), It Is Stamped 5408, And It Is Not An Air-gap Design At All.

Not false advertising more than likely just an oversite. The people they have designing the catalogs are just inputing info... they dont know squat about car parts.

The pictures and info available online would tell you different.

As for the numbering... its quite possible that both part numbers are cast from the core. They just labeled that one 5808. I had a SBC intake that had the wrong number on it... called Edelbrock and they gave me that same reason.

If its definitly for the big port I wouldnt worry about it.

 

[Skip FIx]

All of the Edelbrock Pontiac aluminum heads have the same casting numbers. The 72cc and the 87cc.

 

[salty40]

I just checked my dual quad manifold and it is marked 5408 as well, although the box indicates it is a 5409 (large port). She has the large ports so it is the one I ordered. Still waiting for my new aluminum heads to arrive from Summit, which I ordered 3-20-08. Summit thought they would ship out April 10 - 12th. We'll see. Also the aluminum head bolts are not yet available from ARP even though they make 'em for Edelbrock. The iron head 409 bolts were $86 or so, and the aluminum head bolts, made by ARP but sold with an Edelbrock part number, are twice that much!!! They are back ordered from Edelbrock through Summit too. I'm waiting to order the push rods 'til I am certain of the length; bet they are back ordered too. Some day I will have one bad 409 motor, just not anytime soon. Oh well, it'll give me time to earn the all money I'm bleeding.

 

[Skip FIx]

Edelbrock did the same with the Pontiac head bolts. After a couple of years ARP could sell them as a kit but not for awhile.

You would need to also check the supplied valve springs for lift/coil bind.retainer/seal clearance. They could be limited in lift also to around .575 for coil bind. Most of the Pontiac guys use their own springs for more lift, but high lift flat tappets now with lobes going flat probably should be a roller and need new springs anyway.

 

[boxerdog]

So I take it all of the cracking issues with the Edelbrock "Ws" are resolved? And none of the "bad" ones ever got out?

 

[62impala409]

Getting back to the 5408 casting number on the 5409 big port edelbrock dual quad intake. I received my 5408 small port intake 2 weeks ago and noticed there was a large amount of alum. material left in the top of the port. The small port gaskets fit perfectly. Also the area on top of the ports refered to as the "ears" was not machined for bolts although you can see the bolt hole impression in the casting. The top of the intake comes within .020 of the valve cover. Leads me to beleive they use one mold for both manifolds and open the top of the port and machine the bolt hole for the big heads. Leo

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Jeremy, Please check with your guy at Edelbrock and see if you can get some information. None of this stuff adds up. Edelbrock's web-site claim they have 5 dynos. Everyone knows they have a huge R&D dept. Why was a " outside the company dyno used ?" Why the Hillborn and not one of Edelbrocks intakes? Sounds like a std. bore 409 with 4 in. stroke. Are there more dyno compairisons to be released? Any more parts in development plan? The dyno pull that is posted raise more questions than answers. Edelbrock offers heads and intakes for sale right now, I would think their advertising dept. would be full-bore with details to get sales moving. I am very happy that Edelbrock has jumped in with new products but wish they would be more open with test results.

 

[Skip FIx]

Roniie I ageee a little strange for them to take the time to dyno with an intake not theirs. Generally Edelbrock will even have a cam for a whole top end package intake,heads,cam and dyno results for it. The Pontiac Performer RPM cam is basically a copy of the RAIV cam.

Where is Ignitionman to rain on the Edelbrock parade??