Garbage Truck Engine

[JokersBel]

In the April '58 edition of, "Motor Life," the author never mentioned anything about the "all-new V-8" having any connection with a truck. He called it a "brand new engine."

Perhaps not all the journalists of the time were as biased as others? "Motor Life," seems to have been a good mag, with little opinionated columns.

Jim

 

[Brian64SS]

Were there others?

I'm far from an expert but I'll just throw this out here: I'm not aware of another passenger car engine before the 348/409 that was also used in fire engines, motor coaches, dump trucks, garbage trucks and other very heavy weight, heavy duty trucks. We aren't talking about weenie pick-up trucks, we're talking about serious trucks where the user relies on toughness and dependability in a big vehicle to make a living and even save lives.

It seems like maybe a badge of honor to say this engine was worthy of being in these vehicles. Shortly after the 409 was done these vehicles went to diesels made just for them so the list of engines used in cars and heavy trucks has to be short, right?

Someday when my 409 is done and some Gomer tells me they were truck engines, I'll point to the car and say yeah except when they're in cars.

 

[Mr Goodwrench]

brian chevy did use small v-8's in the big trucks, as well as 6 cylinders before 58. my wifes father bought a brand new 283 in a big truck in 57, had it for many years his first 348 was in a 1960 c-60 said he thought he'd died and gone to heavan talking about small engines in trucks his first semi tractor was a 1947 GMC with a 3cyl diesel man have times changed.

 

[MK IISS]

Brian: Prior to 1958, Chevy had an optional 322 cubic inch V/8 for it's larger trucks. The 322 was actually a heavy duty Buick engine built especially for Chevrolet. It was painted a different color then then the 322 in Buick cars and had a decal on the side of the valve cover that said: "JOB MASTER", if I remember correctly.

 

[five-seven]

garbage truck motor

Hey guys,
I just caught your discussion about the 348 "truck engine" and it brought back some memories of 1969 when I built a 58 Delray with a 1960 348 with 3 twos four speed etc. My older brother overheard my buddy breaking my horns about my "garbage truck motor". Later that day I heard my brother tell the neighbor about his brothers new motor he got from a garbage truck. LOL I did surprise a few 396 325 horse Chevelles on the street. When I popped the hood they would just turn and walk away. It did warm my heart tho!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way, does anybody remember calling the 348s Stonecrushers? I had it written on the fender. AH memories! Steve

 

[SSpev]

oh oh oh

I just saw the mention of the 322 Chevy (Buick) engine for trucks. Got excited. I was told of this some time back found out it exsistied. Couldn't figure why Chevy built it.... they didn't! Looked in a car manual and there it is Buick. Any more info??? Buick 322 ran from 53 to 56. All the v8, 264, 322, 364 seem to be same set up except the 53.

 

[MK IISS]

Tom: I think Chevy only used the 322 Buick in '56 and '57, maybe '55. There were two I know of in the small town I grew up in. Saw them at my Uncle's garage. I'm not an expert on the old Buick V/8 but know a little. It is often refered to as the "Buick Nail Head" because of it's unique vertical small valves. It started out in '53 at 322 cubic inches, replacing Buick's inline 8-cyl. In '54 and '55 Buick under bored the 322 for an economy 264 version in the lowest priced series called the "Special." In '57 Buick bored and stroked the 322 to 364 cubic inches. In '59 Buick bored the 364 to 401 cubic inches but kept the 364 for the lower priced series and then in '64 also offered a 425 cube hi-perf. version. These Buick engines were known for their low RPM torque and their "rumpity-rump" idle because they used a pretty hot cam for the time. At 322 cubes the 4-bbl versions were runners. My high school friend's father had a '56 Century that would "peg" the speedometer with ease. At 401 and 425 cubes the buick cyl. head design could no longer supply enough air flow to the cylinders. The engines was replaced in 1967 by a new design.

 

[Brian64SS]

So much for my thoery

There is so much to learn from the experts on this site.

Since the 283 was used in big trucks that makes the SBC a garbage truck motor too.

 

[Mr Goodwrench]

283 garbage truck motor

he he bet the corvette guys would like to hear that, they also used 265's in big trucks as well as 327's and of course 350's after 50 plus years in the trucking business as a die hard chevy man he's kinda seen it all.

 

[raymar58409]

And I thought I was the oldest one on here. Heres a story you'll all like. Buddy of mine had a 64 dodge ramcharger 426 cross ram, aluminum fenders, radio and heater delete, the 'real' deal. Another buddy bought a new 409 425 IMPALA SS CONVERTIBLE no less, I was in that dodgr that night and all I saw were the taillights of that SS(three outa three). Dodge got sold, was replaced with a 63 327 stingray, got any idea how long before the 327 went by the wayside for a 409? And it musta started out as a low hp as I got the old parts(cam, intake , carb) to put in my 348 "truck"engine. I made a lot a money with that "truck"engine in my 58 convert. AND most of it from those "car" engines. Besides any engineer that would call it a "Truck motor" (motor being an incorrect term anyway, as is engine, when he should have called it an truck internal combustion engine). Terms of which are well above your typical magazine writer. I'm pretty sure Smokey had written the correct terminology, but I don't believe he ever graduated high school.
NEVER believe whats in a ragazine. Even if they get their information on tape from the source they somehow manage to turn it around somewhere between their ear and their hand. Probably cuz it turns around in an mt sphere, with nothing to stop it. Aren't ya glad I'm back?

 

[Garbageman]

Did somebody call for a garbage truck? I just finished reading all the history and trama of our beloved 348/409. It's kind of like the old saying "Put your money where your mouth is!". The 348/409 has proved itself throughout the years and WE continue to prove what great motors they are.

When I'm at the dragstrip, waiting in the staging area, I get all kinds of people coming up to the car. They peer into the engine bay and say "Ah, a 409. You don't see those anymore, what a great car." Grandfathers bring their grandkids over and point out what a "W" motor is and tell them the stories of how the 409 beat everything on the track in his day.

I could care less what some young magazine writer says, they all drive rice burners anyway.

I don't own any gas powered garbage trucks anymore but I think I know where theres one old chev garbage truck with that old "truck motor" in it, a 427.
Paul

 

[tripowerguy]

Hey Garbageman I haven't heard from since the convention. I hope you and your wife are doing well and did you find any drag strips on your way back home. Sure enjoyed your company at KC. As to accuracy today on 409's, At the covention one of the Z-11's was said to be from Cripinger Chevrolet. I told the oringal owner that I had bought 2 chevys from (Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina) He said he did he didn't buy it from Clippinger's but from Service Chevrolet in Monrovia. So you see so many things get put in print and evryone thinks it is the truth because it is in print The drags were dominated by the W engine from late 58 through 61. The 409 came out because Chrysler and Ford were trying to catchup to the W and Chevrolet needed to stay ahead of the game. It amazes me how some people in these magizines can print up stuff that they haven't even read up on or talked to someone who was racing in those days or like Fran who worked in the factory. Roy

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Did somebody call for a garbage truck? Paul

HAAA HEEE HEEEE ! ! !

Here.... come sit in my garbage truck... we'll go for a ride:
http://www.bruneauperformance.ca/movies/64pont1.MPG

"truck engine". yeah, ok ( even motor )

 

[tmracing62]

As far as I know, the first mention in Hot Rod Magazine that the 348 was a truck engine was in 1959 by Don Francisco. He said it was originally designed for heavy duty trucks. That article is reprinted in the Brookland Books "Chevy 348 & 409" engines book and titled "Modifying Chevy's Big V-8". The articles back then were written assuming you had a brain and an attention span, unlike most car magazine articles today that look for cutsie ways to say things that are mostly worthless and aimed at 14 year olds. And Don Francisco was a real journalist as far as I am concerned as were several of the writers for the old Hot Rod. So I am guessing that it was indeed the Chevy engineers that provided the information and that it was accurate. But so what?

We all know it's cheaper to build more horsepower today with other designs, but that's not the point is it? The guys that complain at you almost always either never had a cool ride or are just trying to look smart. For all of the crap I've taken about my car, most of it good humored, it is far and away my very favorite car ever. It has style, is unique and gets lots of respectful good attention. Not to diss other cars, but how many 350/350 roadsters get that pleasant respect?

I put it in the Rocky Mountain Rod and Custom Show which opens tomorrow and there are some really fabulous rides there. Some cool X-frames - I'll take some pictures and post them. But my bland yellow fat a$$ '62 has started lots of friendly conversations already and more people stop by it than any others I've seen hands down. So this coming summer I don't figure to trophy at the races even once, but there's no way I'll change anything just to do that.

By the way, Dennie Davis and Fred Frencke were the Lead Engineers for the 409. Anyone know anything about them?

Trunk engine. Probably. So ask them how they feel about having just lost to a truck engine.

 

[Garbageman]

Hello Tripowerguy. No, we didn't find any tracks that were racing on the days we passed through. We were late getting to Tulsa for their weekend affair and early arriving in Phoenix for racing there. We then planned on traveling up through Las Vegas but time got short and the roads are all secondary from Vegas to Oregon. As we passed close to Bakersfield I thought about the reunion there but a fellow at a filling station thought the event happend the week prior. O'well. We did stop at a small Route 66 hot rod museum in New Mexico and met the owner, Bozo, (his real nickname) and he came out and looked at our car and told us that if we stuck around until that comming weekend there was going to be a big cruise in and show with a burnout contest. Told him we had to keep moving and get home. Arrived home safe and sound and now I'm waiting for the start of racing season. I'll have to make this trip again after I retire so I can hang around for some of the great events that we had to miss during our Great Kansas City Expedition. I hope you and your wife are well.
Paul

 

[wagon409]

This thread caught my eye. I drive a 62 wagon with a 409 truck engine. The guy I bought it from said they pulled it from an old garbage truck.....seriously. Great engine.

Marc

 

[Fran Preve]

Roy: I agree with almost everything you wrote on this post (I'm having a problem with driving a front engine rail being better than sex tho').

I've personally talked to Fred Frienke about W's and Z-11's, he was a main player (working under Vince Piggins). Fred worked on the passenger car side of the performance group (as opposed to the Corvette group).

The "truck" label was slapped on the W because it was designed by a "new guy", an "interloper", a know-it-all Hungarian "hot Rodder". Many in Chevrolet engineering couldn't handle it. Looooong story, the W was designed as a PASSENGER car engine from the start, with 2% planned for trucks. It wasn't DESIGNED as a truck engine, planned as a truck engine, or used as a truck engine from 1958 to 1961 (4% of production during those years were truck engines).

The W series was planned from a W-1 (307) to W-8 (454), in other words there were 8 cubic inch combo's, one was the 348 (W-3) and one the 409 (W-6). The 409 was released early because Ford released the 390 at the start of the 1961 model year, it was PLANNED to be released for the 1962 model year (when the 327 replaced the 348).

I should write a book. Don't debate me, I have some of the pre-production planning records, and the production numbers for all big blocks ever built (all were at Tonawanda). Sure would be P poor planning if you only put 4% of your "truck' engines into trucks.

PS: the Hungarian "hot rodder' designed the ArDun heads for the Ford flathead, Zora ARkus DUNtov (he patterned it after a Mercedes diesel engine, again long story). The W block engine, 74 degree head bank angle.

 

[rwagon57]

Garbageman is right about the Route 66 Museum in NM. It is in Santa Rosa on I-40. Bozo is a great guy and has a really nice collection. I visited in October and he had an absolutely drop dead gorgeous '58 Impala convertible 348 3x2 pearl white with a red interior on display.

There is a great diner in Santa Rosa called the Route 66 Diner. Good food (try the green chile cheeseburger) and good service.

 

[SS425HP]

Santa Rosa

Now you tell me. Just went through there. Twice. Stayed in Tucumcari Oct 29th. Just came back through there Last week. Wish I had known it then. Darn the luck.

Fred