Gas Prices #3

the main reasons for the lack of new refinieries is two fold.

The radicalnviornmentalist lobbyists and organizations, that are cow towed to by the Democratic party legislators in Congess. The Democrats don't want the population to have freedom of independent movement, they want total control of EVERY person in this country, movement, what we do for a living, what we eat, the whole encillada, and especially, transportation. They want us fully dependent on them, for EVERYTHING, cradle to grave.

THAT is the real and true reason we don't have refinery capacity in this country, and it plays directly into oil company workings. Oil companies wouldn't make the outrageous, and now, criminal profits if there were a fair refinery build program, as they couldn't manipulate supply and refining volumes.

Does anyone really believe a refinery needs to be shut completely down to do "maintenance"? Isn't that done all year long, while the refinery is in operation, why, yes it is.

What we really do need is a nation wide identification card. NOT one the government says they want for us, but a retailer's card, for EVERY person in this country. It would identify oil company workers and their families, right down to the baby, vs non-oil company people. Whenever a non oil company person goes to the market, they get charged the regular price. when an oil company person goes to the market, or any other retailer, their ident card would re-factor their pricing, 50 times higher, no exception. EVEN for the kids buying candy at the local store, the entire family. This way, the common fifty cent candy bar would still be fifty cents for non oil company kids, ones that have families just barely getting by, vs those that have criminal outrageous incomes from oil. Same candy bar, regular kid, $.50, oil company kid, $25.00 for the same item. And, if the cost of fuel goes up again, the factor gets changed up for the oil people, period, no exceptions. give them what they are giving us, same place, right up the bum. Then, take the oil company kid's candy bar price type profits, and offset the costs of fuel for the masses, by building new refineries, updating those already in operation, and telling the radical environmentalists and Democrats with agendas, IT IS NOW OVER.

It's simple, as a nation of citizens, we either get together and fight this, or we cower in the corner and let it continue the way it is. Our choice.
 

vin 58

 
Supporting Member 1
For starters venezuela only pays 12 cents per gal. OL" Hugo subsidises the rest and heres the kicker our Ted Kennedy of Cape Cod Mass. thinks the world of this guy. Ive seen the commercials with Joe Kennedy praising our friends at Citgo a Venesuelan co. for cheap home heating oil. If we started drilling when Bush first took office we might not be so bad off but the liberals and enviromentals wackos got there way. We are screwed either way. Buy the way I DO NOT BUY CITGO PRODUCTS thats my way of sticking it to Hugo.
 

1958 delivery

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
the main reasons for the lack of new refinieries is two fold.

The radicalnviornmentalist lobbyists and organizations, that are cow towed to by the Democratic party legislators in Congess. The Democrats don't want the population to have freedom of independent movement, they want total control of EVERY person in this country, movement, what we do for a living, what we eat, the whole encillada, and especially, transportation. They want us fully dependent on them, for EVERYTHING, cradle to grave.

THAT is the real and true reason we don't have refinery capacity in this country, and it plays directly into oil company workings. Oil companies wouldn't make the outrageous, and now, criminal profits if there were a fair refinery build program, as they couldn't manipulate supply and refining volumes.

Does anyone really believe a refinery needs to be shut completely down to do "maintenance"? Isn't that done all year long, while the refinery is in operation, why, yes it is.

What we really do need is a nation wide identification card. NOT one the government says they want for us, but a retailer's card, for EVERY person in this country. It would identify oil company workers and their families, right down to the baby, vs non-oil company people. Whenever a non oil company person goes to the market, they get charged the regular price. when an oil company person goes to the market, or any other retailer, their ident card would re-factor their pricing, 50 times higher, no exception. EVEN for the kids buying candy at the local store, the entire family. This way, the common fifty cent candy bar would still be fifty cents for non oil company kids, ones that have families just barely getting by, vs those that have criminal outrageous incomes from oil. Same candy bar, regular kid, $.50, oil company kid, $25.00 for the same item. And, if the cost of fuel goes up again, the factor gets changed up for the oil people, period, no exceptions. give them what they are giving us, same place, right up the bum. Then, take the oil company kid's candy bar price type profits, and offset the costs of fuel for the masses, by building new refineries, updating those already in operation, and telling the radical environmentalists and Democrats with agendas, IT IS NOW OVER.

It's simple, as a nation of citizens, we either get together and fight this, or we cower in the corner and let it continue the way it is. Our choice.



Ignitionman-stick to ignitions systems, you're good at that.
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Cecil,,,cecil,,, cecil,,,,

The taxes on fuel in Europe are outrageous !!
Over $4 a gal in England,,

I`ve posted this before,,
http://www.348-409.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7058&d=1178291881

You can`t build new refineries,,, but as I just mentioned,,, YOU CAN ENLARGE old ones !!

I just can go along with any kind of shortage,,,


Even so,,, I think we are getting charged more because they can !!

I like the idea of boycotting a certain brand to stick it to them !!!!
That email that is going around stating that is right on !!

Not all brands are sold nation wide,, so you would have to pick a brand for each region and boycott them.

IT WOULD WORK !!!
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
All you guys make good points. As far as the fuel shortage due to refinery maintenance or lack of refinery output...... The way I look at it is simple. Shortage means there is not enough to go around. I don't see gas lines. If you are prepared to pay the price , there seems to be plenty of gas. No shortage. Now, take one major incident , No!! not an incident, the THREAT of an incident and bang! $3.00 will seem cheap for gasoline. So what is the answer??? I'm more pessimistic than most of you, I don't think there is an answer, at least one we would like. If there were one suggestion I could make to the entire population , it would be to vote for anyone you wish , except an incumbent. If you vote Democrat, vote for someone new. Republican, vote for someone new. No experience??????? So what. What could they do?? Mess things up??? Vote for the new guy or gal, can't do any worse. This is an un-paid political announcement. :roll :roll
 

ROYALOAK62

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
Just looked in to the top "Lobbyist list for 2000" (best year I could find) check there names and numbers.

#5) Exxon $11,695,000
#34) Citigroup $6,080,000
#53) Shell $4,156,000
#57) BP Amoco $4,019,000
#68) American Petroleum Institiute $3,383,000
#71) Atlantic Richfield $3,233,000

and you can see why Washington keeps looking the other way.

Dave
 

Tic's60

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
#34) Citigroup $6,080,000

We do not deal in oil only the other evils, Credit cards, mortgages, autoloans, banking :)
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Cecil,,,cecil,,, cecil,,,,

The taxes on fuel in Europe are outrageous !!
Over $4 a gal in England,,

I`ve posted this before,,
http://www.348-409.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7058&d=1178291881

You can`t build new refineries,,, but as I just mentioned,,, YOU CAN ENLARGE old ones !!

I just can go along with any kind of shortage,,,


Even so,,, I think we are getting charged more because they can !!

I like the idea of boycotting a certain brand to stick it to them !!!!
That email that is going around stating that is right on !!

Not all brands are sold nation wide,, so you would have to pick a brand for each region and boycott them.

IT WOULD WORK !!!

So you must support the idea that we should pay more in taxes to reduce consumption and therefore reduce our dependence on foreign oil?

This is a great example of the benefits of "Free Trade" which really means that in order for undeveloped countries to increase their standard of living we have to reduce ours by exporting jobs, importing cheap labor, and increasing the price we pay for gas so that we no longer have an economic advantage over Europe or developing countries. It may be good for the world population in the long view but it is obviously painful during the current equilization process.

We could replace our imports of oil from non-friendly nations by increasing domestic production in the form of exploration and drilling in the areas that we are currently prohibited from by the Environazis That would help but the other part of the problem is refining capacity. We currently have to import about 13% of our refined gasoline (not just oil) due our lack of refining capacity. Since every state and some cities have their own fuel blend requirements it must then be further refined to meet those regional requirements adding to the time required to get the end product to the pump. Another consideration is the storage problems associated with plant-based fuels--they will not keep indefinitely before they start to degrade due to contaminates in the form of bacteria.

As you pointed out additional capacity has been added to existing refineries but it is nowhere near enough. Would you really expect that in the last 30 years when our fuel use has increased significantly but our refining ability hasn't that it wouldn't become an increasing problem? Due to physical limitations and permitting requirements, expanding existing refineries is almost as difficult as building a new one. For new refinery construction the lead time for permitting ( if it is approved) and construction is about 10 years and then to start to recover their investment takes another 5-7 years. How many people or businesses do you know that would be willing to make a large investment that shows no return for at least 15 years especially when faced with the possibility of a declining fossil fuel market? General aviation is already facing that problem in that the fuel producers want to discontinue producing 100 low lead aviation gasoline leaving only 80/87 which is suitable only for small engines. It's not unrealistic to expect to see vintage propeller driven airplanes only in museums in the foreseable future.....our old cars could soon follow.

You probably saw the program on GM's hydrogen generator powered car that has been demonstrated to have a 300 mile range. They call it the "skateboard" and it is a multi-use chassis and powerplant enclosed in the floor. The platform will accept various bodies so that the same chassis can have a sedan, sports car, or pickup truck body attached saving on tooling and production costs. This seems to have great potential and is probably our future....not as much fun as a 409 but probably much more practical even if practical is boring.

So if we want to punish capitalism for "excessive" profits where would you like to start after we destroy our petroleum industry? How about Bill Gates and Microsoft? Their profit percentage is higher than the oil companies. Then next we'll work on the prescription drug companies and see what happens to new drug development. If 9% profit (which is about what the US oil companies made last year) is too much, then maybe we should apply the standard to all profits just to be fair. What should it be 5%, 6%, 8%? Should the same limit be applied to you when you sell your home or some other property? How about you small business owners.....are you OK with a profit limit imposed by the government?

As far as the boycott idea, I'm sorry but it won't work like you might expect. Gas is a fungible commodity and it looses its identity when it leaves the refinery. If you boycott a specific brand then everyone will line up at the remaining retailers and they will raise prices due to increased demand and purchase the unsold supplies from the boycotted retailers.

See a good explanation here.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp

The prices are painful to me too. I'm driving about 1700 miles roundtrip next week to attend my aunt's 100th birthday and It will be painful to pay for all that gas but I refuse to fly commercially unless I'm doing the flying....been that way since just after 911. If I can't drive it I don't go.


I'm done.:bang :bang :bang
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Cecil................are you coming thru KC?????????????

Nope, going the other way to Sacramento. I am planning a trip back east later this summer or early fall. Hopefully gas prices might drop off a liitle by then although only temporarily. I wanted to try to time it so I could drop by Norwalk but I'm not sure yet.
:dunno
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
So you must support the idea that we should pay more in taxes to reduce consumption and therefore reduce our dependence on foreign oil?

Dude,,, yer harshin my buzzz !!:doh

most high taxes on fuel in Europe is not only to reduce the use of fuel but the main reason is to pay for all the free social services !!
Free comes with a price,,


I REALLY HATE IT when you lump me in with the eco-blunder heads !!!

I do think we need to increase our oil drilling but also need to watch how we do ,, that is do it in a reasonable and ecological way,,
YES WE CAN !!!

Just don`t give the oil companies un-restricted rights to do what ever they want.
And for refineries,,

BUILD THEM !!

So it takes ten years,,,
So does drilling !!

but ten years is better then not doing anything,,

The boycott thing is just a way to say we are fed up !!

Whether it works to reduce the price or not, it does send a message!
And maybe the message will get through,,,

As far as the government,,, it`s too late,, too big and too corrupt !!

The BIG corporations run our government.



Just look at the new immigration law they want to pass,,
Is it what the majority of the people of this country want?
Not even close,,,

It`s what big business want,,, CHEAP LABOR !!

I`m not a Liberal,, or Conservative,,

I`m a REALIST !!!! ,,,dq
 

mikehd56

 
Supporting Member 1
Pessimistic?

All you guys make good points. As far as the fuel shortage due to refinery maintenance or lack of refinery output...... The way I look at it is simple. Shortage means there is not enough to go around. I don't see gas lines. If you are prepared to pay the price , there seems to be plenty of gas. No shortage. Now, take one major incident , No!! not an incident, the THREAT of an incident and bang! $3.00 will seem cheap for gasoline. So what is the answer??? I'm more pessimistic than most of you, I don't think there is an answer, at least one we would like. If there were one suggestion I could make to the entire population , it would be to vote for anyone you wish , except an incumbent. If you vote Democrat, vote for someone new. Republican, vote for someone new. No experience??????? So what. What could they do?? Mess things up??? Vote for the new guy or gal, can't do any worse. This is an un-paid political announcement. :roll :roll

History Repeats;
The fall of Rome; The Goths flooding across her Northern Borders.
My suggestion, invest in precious metals. Gold, Silver, Guns, x-frame chevy. In the mean time have fun. When poo-poo hits the fan, lock and load. I give it 5-years and the U.S.A. will be no more. The World Bank, Rockefellers and Rothchilds want to make us like the Euro trash. I'm tired of dodging Mexican big rigs.
This is America people! Love it or Leave it.
 

MorganK

Member
So if we want to punish capitalism for "excessive" profits where would you like to start after we destroy our petroleum industry? How about Bill Gates and Microsoft? Their profit percentage is higher than the oil companies.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but at least Bill Gates & The Gates Foundation donates, and gives back to our communities; rather than spending insane amounts of money in attempt to sway political interest for the future of America.

This subject has always been a touchy issue for my peers, and tough for myself to understand due to it's complexity, and my inexperience.

The way I see it, the large oil industry has taken advantage of our political system, despite it's origins of capitalism for far too long [and exceedingly in the last few decades], and should be strictly regulated. For example, should large oil compensate majority cost of the Iraq war after it's oil industry takeover? Absolutely. Will it happen? Not likely. Despite the war and record profits, the industry is always investing money to back stocks, seismic research, expansions, production efficiency, etc. This may as well be the neverending story.

I guess my point is... I fear no administration, nor representative body can control large oil's influence in politics today, and we can only expect higher prices in exception for pre-election.

house_republican_cartoon.jpg
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
I just read an article today that said the boycotts don`t work.
Cutting back on gas consumption does,

They stated that if everyone cut back one gal of gas a month that would be enough to lower the price by 50 cents.

Now imagine if this was true,,

If we could cut back a gal a week,,
Or a gal a day,,

I`ve already started,,

Using my Harley as my daily ride has increased my mileage from about 15 MPG to around 40 !!:brow
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Correct me if i'm wrong, but at least Bill Gates & The Gates Foundation donates, and gives back to our communities; rather than spending insane amounts of money in attempt to sway political interest for the future of America]

That was a rhetorical question but I'm obviously wasting my time trying to use facts, logic and objective thought here. I'll post no more on this thread.
:bang :bang :bang :bang :bang :bang
 

MorganK

Member
That was a rhetorical question but I'm obviously wasting my time trying to use facts, logic and objective thought here. I'll post no more on this thread.
:bang :bang :bang :bang :bang :bang

Apologies for any misunderstanding, but I felt I was taking a broad approach on your view of the situation, and was really hoping for an outstanding rebuttal.
I sure would like to indulge in intelligent conversation. It gets lonely sometimes here with the old lady. :roll
 
Top