GM Foundry History

[oldskydog]

One thing that I have always been interested in is when, where, and why the change of casting foundry of the W engines to CFD (Central Foundry Division or Central Foundry Defiance?) in mid 62 along with; the X on the block, Armasteel main caps, julian dates, and the appearance of the casting clock, which seems to be associated with the Saginaw Foundry since it also started appearing on Flint assembled smallblocks around the same time and they were cast at Saginaw. All these changes seem to have occured at the same time, around May/June 62.
What I would like to determine is whether the change actually shifted casting from the Tonawanda Foundry to the Saginaw Gray Iron Foundry (SMCO) or was it simply an organizational change where the Tonawanda Foundry was redesignated as part of the overall GM Central Foundry Division but still located in Tonawanda, NY.
If casting was shifted to Saginaw, which it may have been, then the castings would still have to be shipped to Tonawanda for machining and assembly. That doesn't seem very efficient, but there may be other reasons for the shift.....lightening the workload on Tonawanda in preparation for the Mark IV (396) introduction in 65, or possibly the establishment of the Experimental Castings Foundry, which I discovered in this history of significant Saginaw Foundry (SMCO) events (see attachment).
Note the two interesting events in 1962, namely :

1962 Experimental Foundry Completed
1962 First Nodular iron poured on #15 and #17 conveyors

The appearance of the X on the block and the Armateel main caps might possibly be associated with the establishment of the Experimental Foundry and the Armasteel mains may be nodular iron, which GM was just starting to use in various castings including 283 cranks in 64.
The entry" 1967-Nodular iron plant completed" refers to the completion of a dedicated foundry for nodular iron parts in Defiance, Ohio which was known as Central Foundry Defiance which is also sometimes referred to as CFD. The W engine was out of production by then, so I don't believe CFD as it appears on the 62-65 castings means anything but Central Foundry Division and should not be confused with the later Defiance foundry.
One would think that if W casting was moved from Tonawanda in 62, there would be some written record of the shift, but so far, I haven't been able to find it.
If anyone has, or comes across any more information on this subject in your research, please share.

 

[chevymusclecars]

Cecil

This may be of interest to you. http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/Central_Foundry_Division

Bill

 

[oldskydog]

Cecil

This may be of interest to you. http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/Central_Foundry_Division

Bill

Thanks for reminding me of that, Bill. I had read it before in my research, but missed the part about Defiance foundry being established in 48, so as a part of the Central Foundy Division, It may be the location where our blocks were cast if, in fact, they left Tonawanda. Closer to NY for shipping the raw castings. It just seemed to be a big coincidence that the Experimental (think "X") foundry was established at Saginaw about the same time.

 

[oldimpala]

This is where I wish Fran Preeve were still alive...

To my knowledge, and I had numerous conversations with him over GM Tonawanda visitors tours, the '09s were cast in both locations. Tonawanda was in fact overwhelmed by SB production, and later tooling for Mk IV, so Central Foundry Division got more and more of the work as time went on. Tonawanda was, and is still, the largest machining shop for engines in the world (Only briefly surpassed by a tank facility in the USSR), and GM tried to do as much economy of scale there as possible.

CFD was established to do castings ad distribute it, due to its "Central" location, to the major machining/assembly facilities across the country.

The only period where CFD took on a full casting role was during some labor strikes at Tonawanda in the early 60's; something tells me '63, but I could be wrong. At which point the attempted to send machining for whatever they could out of here; so there are some odd, numbers-matching CFD Heads on Ton Blocks, and vice-versa, based on supply in that era.

Again, if I'm off, I'm sorry. It's been a few years, and Fran could be a PITA, but... He knew his poop about that plant, and I'm thankful for the chance to have explored most of it under his tutelage.....

-Andy

PS: If you're looking for documentation of plant production/shifts, I can call the few people I know that volunteer in the plant history section at Tonawanda, and see if they have anything. I only casually know them, unlike Fran, where he and his wife got to wipe me on the 1/8th almost every week...

 

[chevymusclecars]

Defiance Ohio is a couple hours from me and another member of this site who grew up in Mansfield told me that their High School trip was to the foundry. He like me has always been a motorhead and said that during that trip he actually saw 409 engine castings, the trip would have taken place in 62 or 63 if that helps.

Bill

 

[oldskydog]

"The only period where CFD took on a full casting role was during some labor strikes at Tonawanda in the early 60's; something tells me '63, but I could be wrong. At which point the attempted to send machining for whatever they could out of here; so there are some odd, numbers-matching CFD Heads on Ton Blocks, and vice-versa, based on supply in that era."

Thanks Andy, any info you can find will be great.
I'll have to disagree about the strikes. I've read comments like that about the labor strikes and I believe that was another rumor without any verifiable source. Even Fran didn't have any info on that as I recall and I haven't been able to find anything either. Could just be people offering a possible scenario as to why things changed when they did.
Much information has come to light in recent years to challenge our old assumptions about what we know about these engines. I know a lot of what I thought was correct has been shown to be wrong. I always try to find as much documentation as I can to add new and hopefully correct info.
As I stated, in 62, all W castings changed to CFD, X, Julian date codes, and Armasteel main caps. There was nothing temporary about it. All 814, 422, 655, and 656 blocks I have ever seen have those characteristics along with the 068 castings after June, 62. Same with the heads .
We don't know for sure where they were cast, but we do know they continued to be assembled, and I assume machined, as well, in Tonawanda.

 

[W Head]

Cecil, I do know there was a strike in 1962, ordered my 62 in Sept. and did not get it until 16 weeks later because of a strike.

W Head

59 El Camino 348-3,2s
59 Impala 409-2,4s

 

[oldimpala]

Hi Cecil!

Here's the information. There was in fact a strike, and subsequent furlough in Tonawanda. Let me explain...

I'm a Buffalo Sabres season ticket holder, and the gentleman who sits next to me worked at Tonawanda from 1956 to 2005, including the entire run on the W-Line, in various positions, ending as an individual who re-tipped the cylinder bore bits on the several of the engine lines. I knew he worked there during the '60s, I wasn't aware he went that far back, so I asked. Gotta say, I spent a period and a half talking with him, much to his wife's, and my girlfriend's chagrin... It was worth it.

Here's the reader's digest version:

In '62 the UAW (Local 774) represented about a dozen contracts in the plant, from first and second level managers down to janitors. The foundry was represented by a contract that came up, and prior to this point, they had poor health benefits, administered by either company doctors, or a handful of local physicians. The foundry struck to get Blue Cross/Blue Shield. The machine shop was furloughed as they had no rough castings to turn into shiny new motors, without pay, for about six weeks. Remember, the foundry was gone longer, and the actual assembly plant ran through their stock, and sat idle for 10 working days per the union contract, prior to leaving.

He distinctly remembers it because he just had a kid, just bought his first house, and it came at pretty much the worst time.

The UAW finally settled, in exchange for $1.50 an hour, they received BC/BS benefits. The machine shop had a similar demand when their contract was up shortly thereafter, and got the same package. He made a point to tell me they had great benefits, but it wasn't given to them for free, they took a salary cut to get them, and that $1.50 was a significant portion of their salary back then. Another result was that GM decided having the majority of their eggs in one proverbial basket was a bad idea, and decided to diversify their foundries and machine shops, just in case of future issues.

So, I can now confirm there was a strike (2, actually), and why.

Ted is going to ask around and see what shipped out temporarily, and permanently, to other plants as a result of that strike and plant updates. I'll also get you exact dates, which he promised me. I'm also still going to run down my contact in their historical department for more info, and I'll ask a few guys I know in 774, see if they have any contacts for old records.

More to follow... And hope this helps to clarify a little...

-Andy

 

[oldskydog]

Thanks Andy,
I did do a search for strike info before and came up with nothing other than a very big index to all the UAW records at the Walter Reuther Library which did contain all the correspondence with Local 774, but of course, you have to go to the library to read it. I also went to the Local 774 website but found nothing there. It must not have been a very big strike since it doesn't show up in any GM or Labor references I have been able to find.
The big question still is did the W casting process get moved to Saginaw or Defiance or did it stay at Tonawanda under the reorganized "Central Foundry Division" name?

 

[mpris]

Cecil, I think back in 2004 there was a lot of discussion on this board about the CFD on the castings. Fran Preve was involved on the board at that time and we had a lot of discussions about strikes and such and how they may have impacted production. Some of us thought that the CFD casting came from Saginaw, but could never come up with a strike or whatever which we could associate with that happening. Fran seemed to think that Tonawanda was part of the Central Foundry Division at that time so it didn't make any difference if CFD was on the castings. I think Tonawanda assembled all the "W" engines, but the casting of them would have been a very small part of the total Tonawanda output. Today I found several articles which state that the Tonawanda Grey Iron Foundry was a Chevrolet Division foundry and was not part of CFD until 1983, when it was transferred to the CFD and was ultimately closed in the mid 80s due to over capacity. So maybe it is possible that Saginaw cast all the parts which have CFD on them. Do we have any idea what percentage of parts had the CFD on them after mid 1962?

Poocho

 

[oldskydog]

Cecil, I think back in 2004 there was a lot of discussion on this board about the CFD on the castings. Fran Preve was involved on the board at that time and we had a lot of discussions about strikes and such and how they may have impacted production. Some of us thought that the CFD casting came from Saginaw, but could never come up with a strike or whatever which we could associate with that happening. Fran seemed to think that Tonawanda was part of the Central Foundry Division at that time so it didn't make any difference if CFD was on the castings. I think Tonawanda assembled all the "W" engines, but the casting of them would have been a very small part of the total Tonawanda output. Today I found several articles which state that the Tonawanda Grey Iron Foundry was a Chevrolet Division foundry and was not part of CFD until 1983, when it was transferred to the CFD and was ultimately closed in the mid 80s due to over capacity. So maybe it is possible that Saginaw cast all the parts which have CFD on them. Do we have any idea what percentage of parts had the CFD on them after mid 1962?

Poocho

All of them.

 

[oil4kids]

Just as a side note Mystery Motor Designer, Dick Keinath had told me that prior to becoming chief of engineering at Chevrolet, he had worked at Saginaw as a draftsman, engineer and had started close relationships with Saginaw plant management, during 1962/63 he was able to have the so called redesigned 90 degree 409 block (427 mystery motor) blocks cast at Saginaw, maybe 60 blocks in all, some 409 cubic inches and most 427 cubic inches and other parts which then started a competition around block manufacturing, therefore the mystery motor has the honor of not being a tonowanda big block chevy.

 

[oldskydog]

Just ran across this tidbit of information
"1961 - Chevrolet conducted its first ductile iron heat at Chevrolet Grey Iron Foundry in Saginaw, Michigan. Chevrolet then built a ductile iron experimental foundry in April 1962 and its first production foundry in November 1962."

Source: http://www.allbusiness.com/manufacturing/fabricated-metal-product-manufacturing/706669-1.html#ixzz1jORWBSCV​

And this:​

"General Motors lived up to its leadership position of the automakers after some initial resistance, spent the most on ductile iron. Because GM had patented ArmaSteel (a tempered martensitic malleable iron) on a variety of parts, they were first reluctant to introduce a competing metal. But by 1959 or 1960, said Kirgin, GM decided to produce a ductile iron crankshaft and built an experimental foundry in Saginaw, Michigan Saginaw is a city in the U.S. state of Michigan. As of the 2000 census, the city had a total population of 61,799. The 2006 population estimate was 57,523.[1] It is the county seat of Saginaw County[2] , under Ed Cole(*), who later became president of General Motors. Both Chevrolet and Defiance started ductile iron plants (both 2000 tons/day shops) for crankshafts in 1966 - single-handedly adding 4000 tons/day of ductile iron capacity into the U.S.

GM's conservatism is best illustrated by the 2000 trial heats in 1966 that studied MgFeSi levels of 5% vs. 9%. The result was a 25% cost reduction with the 5% level, and the 9% alloy soon disappeared. From 1965-1973, its Central Foundry Div. alone shipped 1 million tons of ductile iron castings - differential carriers and cases, bearing caps, crankshafts, disc brake calipers and knuckles - all of which were previously steel components.

Elmer Braun was general manager of Central Foundry Div., John Ikner(*) was head of the Saginaw Nodular nodular Foundry and Bill Goudritz was his superintendent."

Could our CFD engine castings after April 62 have been poured as part of the nodular iron experimental program?​

CFD = Central Foundry Division​

Central Foundry Division's home offices were at Saginaw Grey Iron Foundry​

X (experimental?)appeared on all blocks after May 62​

Julian dates now used instead of MDY​

Armasteel (a form of hardened malleable iron) main caps appear.​

Casting numbers were changed annually, yet without visible differences in the blocks.​

New casting numbers would be issued when a significant engineering change or improvement in design was made, or it could also change simply as a result of different metalurgy in the iron alloy with no apparent change in the casting design.​

During the entire remaining production of the W engine line, Tonawanda continued to cast other engine blocks and heads yet they didn't have the same CFD markings and Julian dates that the W line did. You have to wonder why the Tonawanda Foundry would use different mold/pattern markings in the same operation. I suspect the answer is that they didn't....that the W castings were poured elsewhere then shipped into NY for machining and assembly.​

The search continues.​