Hey guys, have you seen this....

[Daddys409Belair]

A friend showed this to me and I was wondering if anybody else had seen anything like this.

http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster.html

The guy claims that his homemade unit will get your late model gas guzzlers to pass smog tests WITHOUT your cat. converter!

I made one (cost me about $25.00) and my 1997 worktruck actually seems to run better. It's simple chemistry; you know, splitting up hydrogen and oxygen from water. I'll let you know about improvements to my mileage.

What grabbed my attention is the claim of octane improvement and wondered how a high compression motor would feel about hydrogen and oxygen pumped directly into the intake.......

What are your thoughts?

 

[dq409]

He ain`t gonna live another year !! heee heeee


OPEC is gonna ice him ,,,,



OK,,, I want one !!!!

 

[tripowerguy]

This thing seems to simple. Back in my Mother Earth days I looked at a 68 F**D full sized car that ran 100% on hydrogen. He used a propane carb and used a series of batteries to produce the hydrogen. There is no incentitive for anyone to push this because once you buy it you add water. The oil guys will send hit men in and the IRS will audit their taxs. While I worked for a concrete company I tried to sell some concrete for a senior center septic system. An engineer used a lagoon system because it works much better and is environmently much better than a drain field. Even though it required no concrete I asked him why more people didn't use this method? He said architechs and engineers are paid a percentage of the overall cost of a project so there is no incentive to cut costs even if it is better for the planet. Anyway, this thing seems like it would make the W engine run better and might even make my pickup get decent mieage. Roy

 

[Rockfish39]

Kabooom!

...wondered how a high compression motor would feel about hydrogen and oxygen pumped directly into the intake.......
What are your thoughts?

I don't have enough time to provide a scientific analysis ...

In short:
#1 Can't produce enough hydrogen 'on the fly' as the engine would require
#2 Does the Hindenburg ring a bell??? Hydrogen is very volatile and explosive
#3 Applying an ignition source to a pressurized combustion chamber that is designed to burn gasoline, but is instead loaded with hydrogen, will result in an uncontrolled explosion that will blow a hole right through the middle of your pistons :eek: Thereby destroying the engine

Want the real scoop on Hydrogen power??? Check out what TRAINED engineers (not shade tree mechanics) at BMW are doing in this area.

I'm not really interested in Snake Oil...

Rock :

 

[Daddys409Belair]

Rock-

Remember, I didn't come up with this. I just thought you guys might be interested. In response to your points:

1) You're not replacing the fuel, you're supplementing it. So you won't need to make 500 cfm of hydrogen.

2) Yes, I remember about the exploding blimp. Again, you're not using 100% hydrogen. There is an oxygen mix and you are still drawing atmospheric air (78% nitrogen, etc.) and you're using the hydrogen on demand, i.e. not storing it.

3) The combustion chambers are still loaded with fuel, normal air, and very little free hydrogen.

It took me a while to get this 'system' dialed in, I'll let you know the results when I get all the kinks worked out.

I did some checking on the research done by BMW.....hmmmm they built a car that can runs on hydrogen or gasoline.................but I don't trust them because they are in league with Shell Oil:

http://www.bmwworld.com/models/750hl.htm

Also check out the fact that Chevron is one of the biggest hydrogen producers, and guess what? They make hydrogen from hydrocarbons, not from water. So we are still polluting and relying on foreign oil (of course, they don't mention where the hydrogen comes from.) Look for yourselves:

http://www.chevron.com/technologyventures/commercialize_tech/hydrogen_production.asp

Let me know what you think. What I think is that the car & oil companies will spend LOTS of goverment research money and tell us that hydrogen cannot be used safetly or it's too expensive, or just simply won't work. So GUESS WHAT: we need to just sit down, shut up, and buy their ##$$%&* gasoline!

Hey DQ-

I think the 'OPEC police' just pulled up out front.......gotta go!:eek:

Hee Hee!!!

 

[dq409]

Daddy, I be very interested in how you experiment works out.

If indeed this works wouldn`t it be great to put those rag heads back into tents, riding camels in the middle of a barren desert !!!

But seriously, we all need to keep an open mind to stuff like this.
If it does work think about all the benifits that it could bring to the average person and our planet.

No more paying through the poop shute to mega corporations that don`t give a hoot to anything but profits.

Then the remaining oil could be used for products other then gas that would extend what oil reserves are left for many more years.

"Hey mister, can I borrow your garden hose? I just ran out of water down the road!!! "

May be a dream, maybe not, but nothing to loose everything to gain,,,dq

 

[348NUT]

interesting!

If they could only use billet aluminum tanks, they'd sell like hot cakes! But seriously, any better fuel mileage from the old 348 would be great And I'd love to try it out on the 348 I'm running now before it gets a big dollar rebuild. Let us know how it works. NUT

 

[Tic's60]

Seems simple enough and it does not use another oil product to improve the milage as well.
Even if the ol truck gets 15 vs 10 that's huge as long as it works with out blowing up things.
I am game. Wonder if you added som pressure behind it

 

[Daddys409Belair]

Tics-

I don't think I'd pressurize it, but he does suggest running a 1/4 to 3/8" tube to the bottom to use the 'vibration' and 'push' from the exhaust to get more gas out faster.

Look at this link too:

http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster2.html

This is the one I built except for the additional exhaust tube.

348NUT-

You're right - I know I'D buy one if it was billet aluminum! I'll keep you posted.

DQ-

The only drawback I see as of yet is the amp draw; 15-20 amps depending on how much electrolite you put in. I started blowing fuses and couldn't figure it out, then realized when it got hot, it would pull over 30 amps! I drained out about half the solution, added water and reduced it to 20 amps maximum. Luckily, once you get the electrolite amount correct, you only need to keep it full of water.

If someone were to attempt to completely (or largely) replace their fuel (gasoline) with this, they would need a TREMENDOUS amount of amperage to produce enough hydrogen to even get it to idle (if you can even do that.)

I know that in theory you CAN'T make a 'perpetual motion' device (that produces it's own fuel) but I believe a internal combustion motor can be a hell of a lot more efficient than what they are now.

C-ya

 

[desapience]

hydrogen mixed with Oxygen = heat + water

The idea that the use of hydrogen and mixing it with oxygen is a well defined science...

The space-shuttle's main engines (not the solid propellant side boosters), use hydrogen and liquid oxygen... lots of it. When Challenger went BOOM, the only by-product was a water vapor cloud, and a huge explosion (heat).

Obviously, in a car, no-one is going to be cost efficient in maintaining the freezing temperatures to keep pure oxygen in a liquid state... Our atmosphere contains less than 11% oxygen (as a gas).

The exxon/mobile cash-cow -- as a publically owned (stock) company, is primarily owned by mega-wealthy, very politcially connected, with inter-business controlling interests. In other words, anyone thinking thay can blind-side the oil companies by putting this technology out (which can be done), without joining Jimmy Hoffa, is dreaming.

Denis

 

[Rockfish39]

Where exactly did you go to school???

For a while now I was wondering why the likes of Phil Reed (and other notable good friends) have posted less and less to nearly not at all... I guess that they got tired of educating people on the simplest things. IE they have better things to do.

Denis, I just dont understand you...You claim to be a medical professional???
You write me nasty PMs talking about your 20+ years of college???

Where did you go to school??? :

If you think that big oil is setting and controlling global oil prices, you dont know the first thing about economics... You're totally lost !

Furthemore, You're talking about the space shuttle??? Irrelavant technology , you're comparing apples to oranges. The problem isn't oxygen to begin with, it is liquifying and storing the hydrogen.

Did you ever study first year university physics??? Ever, Dr. Know it all ????

In simple terms, It takes alot more energy to break the hydrogen out of water than it makes when you recombine it with oxygen to re-make water. Which is why the rediculous proposition of creating hydrogen "on the fly" to supplement an induction system for increased efficiency CAN'T WORK.

The energy required to spin that generator doesn't come for free. The engine has to overcome the additional resistance of the generator while it is making power to carry that additional load. Do you know what EMF is Dr. ??? (Electro-Motive Force)???

The MINISCULE amount of Hydrogen-Oxygen gases that you can produce the way that insane website suggests will only result in a negligible appreciation of power output, where-as the generator would require ALOT more torque to spin it . IE The vehcile will LOOSE efficiency and power at the back tires.

Have you ever heard of Nitrous Oxide??? Screwing around with backyard barbeque tinkertoys that are advertised to defy physics is a complete waste of time and money.

Im out of here...

Rock :evil

 

[SSpev]

Rock,

Is there a problem with asking what back ground you have that gives you the knowlage to comment on such a subject?? I don't know what was said in the PM. There must have been alot to it. After working in the engineering field for 14 years, with engines. I would be curious / sceptical as to anyones back ground to make any claims of such alternate fuels working or not working. Then there are those, without education that are far beyond many and engineers that don't know how to fold a paper bag.

Tom Pevlor
MET - Cummins Engine Inc.
Research and Dvelopment

 

[Rockfish39]

Good fortune

Well then, lucky for me that I went to college, actually finished, and practiced as a EE earlier in my career... Tom, you can't change the laws of physics. As a ME you should know that yourself.

BMW spent over 30 years and over $1.0 Billion dollars (IR&D) developing Hydrogen fuels technology. Is it reasonable to think that they wasted ALL that time and money when the answer was so simple all along??? We all know that the answer is NOT that simple.

I have no argument with you, nor with anyone else... Its just that Dr. Denis likes to wear his sheepskins out on his sleeve, yet each time I read a post of his brings that display into question for me.

He can't seriously suggest that big business will KILL YOU for bringing a new technology into the market place that may rob them of some profit. Capitalism would have failed and given way to murderers and thieves long ago, if that were the case... Conspiracy theory to feed the weak-minded is what I call that rhetoric...

and lucky for me that I know how to fold a paper bag too....

Rock

 

[rwagon57]

You know...If this alleged technology really worked, somebody would have protected it, licensed it, and would be selling it.

If it seems to good to be true, it probably isn't.

 

[Daddys409Belair]

Rock-

I understand your skepticism, but you act as though this fellow is trying to get people to purchase a product from him. He's giving out free information, that's all. I don't understand why your so terribly negative about the whole thing. Besides, back yard mechanics and garage inventors have come up with some pretty good ideas in the past.

If your right, I'll be the first to admit it. If I lose an alternator and only get 1-2 miles extra per gallon, or blow a piston, then the eggs on my face.

Now THESE guys are selling systems to make $$dough$$:

http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/index.html

These fellows I'd be a whole lot more skeptical about.

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Please forgive me for wandering off the subject, but I would like to take the oppurtunity to ask a question that has puzzeled me for 40 yrs. The reason I ask here is because of the engineers on this thread. I have only a high school education ( barely escaped with that) . First the reason for the question. In high school I was reading a HOt Rod magazine and there was an article about a guy who won all the national events he entered. A 283 car. The article was revealing some of his secrets. One of his secrets was to paint the lifter valley and intake man. bottom , white. Now, my science teacher had taught us that color was the result of light refraction on pigments. At least that was my understanding. So how could the color white reflect heat if there was no light? No doubt, hundreds of internal engine parts were painted white because of that article. So this understanding or mis-understanding leads me to my real question. The 4ft by 8ft sheets of insulation used in new home construction , is a shiny aluminum color. Would those sheets produce the same insulation qualities if they were pink, green, blue, etc.?? When the siding covers the shiny aluminum, there is no light. Is the shiny aluminum color the result of the manufacturering process or do they add some aluminum color? The buyer must think because of the shiny color that it must be some good stuff. Would they think the same if it were green? A sales ploy? I thank you for your answers. It is a simple question that probably everyone knows the answer to but me, but I would like to hear the answer from the engineers.

 

[models916]

Heating up

Heat is nothing more than a light wave that is reflected back on bright surfaces. Like infra red heaters. That's why silver works and green does not in a reflective application.

 

[SS425HP]

reflected heat

Please forgive me for wandering off the subject, but I would like to take the oppurtunity to ask a question that has puzzeled me for 40 yrs. The reason I ask here is because of the engineers on this thread. I have only a high school education ( barely escaped with that) . First the reason for the question. In high school I was reading a HOt Rod magazine and there was an article about a guy who won all the national events he entered. A 283 car. The article was revealing some of his secrets. One of his secrets was to paint the lifter valley and intake man. bottom , white. Now, my science teacher had taught us that color was the result of light refraction on pigments. At least that was my understanding. So how could the color white reflect heat if there was no light? No doubt, hundreds of internal engine parts were painted white because of that article. So this understanding or mis-understanding leads me to my real question. The 4ft by 8ft sheets of insulation used in new home construction , is a shiny aluminum color. Would those sheets produce the same insulation qualities if they were pink, green, blue, etc.?? When the siding covers the shiny aluminum, there is no light. Is the shiny aluminum color the result of the manufacturering process or do they add some aluminum color? The buyer must think because of the shiny color that it must be some good stuff. Would they think the same if it were green? A sales ploy? I thank you for your answers. It is a simple question that probably everyone knows the answer to but me, but I would like to hear the answer from the engineers.

Ronnie, I don't know about the reflective quality as to heat, but it would be rather a double standard. In the winter up here, we need the heat. Don't want to reflect it, if it does. Summer would be OK. I do know that bricklayers HATE it. Absolutely blinding to work beside. And, causes sun burns, too. Don't see it as much up here as I used to. Think they have gotten away from it. Now, every house is wrapped in Tyvec. A plastic sheet that stops air infiltration. Sometimes, though, you can get a house too tight. All the new stuff, such as carpet, gives off odors or chemicals, that don't get out due to the tightness of the house. Ever walk into a new motor home in the summer. Will take your breath away. Causes some people problems!

You touched on one of my pet peeves, too. Years ago, and still to this day, people paint engines black. Was supposed to draw heat from inside the motor to the surface to get rid of it. Same deal. Black gets hot in the sun because it reflects no sun rays. Has no effect on an internal combustion engine. In fact, any paint on an engine insulates the casting, holding the heat in. A raw block will cool faster than a painted one. Another is polished aluminum. Holds heat like crazy. Has less surface area to dissapate heat.

Enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dq409]

Chevy went to black to hid oil leaks,,, Thats what Iv`e been told,,,dq

The alum reflects heat not due to color but to the properties of the aluminum,,dq

BTW,,,, green is the best color for year round house color,,,, and for roofs,,,
prove me wrong,,

 

[tripowerguy]

I saw this 68 F**d with my own eyes running on hydrogen with a propane carb in 1974. It had a massive alternator off a ambulance or truck. I didn't ask him because ther were a lot of people around asking questions and the tech. looked to complex for me. He did have a bank of batteries in the trunk in a stainless container. But it ran down the road and he wasn't selling anything. Also in Spingdale AR a guy was converting cars to run on a electric starter motor off an airplane. It used a Briggs and Straton engine to charge the Batteries. It got about 60 to 70 mpg depending on the size of the car it was put in. I know there are lots of ideas floating around. Henry Ford and the Wright brothers started in a garage. Apple computers were first produced in a garage. Big corporations are not the most knowledgable place in the world. Roy