How do you beef up a 409 truck motor?

64ImpSS

64ImpSS

Well Known Member
Guys, I'm a 409 novice. You may have seen my 64 project. It's a 340 horse all original car that will stay that way. I do like customs though too and have a possible opportunity to pick up a truck motor and thinking it might be fun to build a hot rod 409 motor to put in my 62 Chevy II gasser. (or some other car) But anyway I understand the truck blocks are notched to reduce compression. Can they be built to be a good hot rod, streetable motor? Say 450-500HP?
 
409gang

409gang

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Supporting Member 1
Yes it all depends on how deep your pocket is as building any engine. You can drop a 4" stroke rotating assembly in and up the cubes to 482 with a .068 overbore or a 475 with a .038 overbore, no substitute for cubic inches! The engine in my avatar is a truck block.
 
1964SuperStocker

1964SuperStocker

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Supporting Member 3
Better find a set of good heads. 333 or 817s might get you there with a bunch of work and big valves shoe horned in with their small intake runners but you are better off with a set of large runner cast 690 or 583 high performance heads. Could always go the Aluminum head route too but no matter what you do to the bottom end for cubic inches you will also need some compression around 10:1 so pistons are needed as well for that low compression truck motor. Expect it to cost you at the very least a 1/3 more money than a build of any SBC or BBC not including all of the performance parts you will tach onto that. Knowledge and time will save you money so start studying now. Its well worth it.
 
pvs409

pvs409

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Supporting Member 11
My 65 409 truck motor with a 482 cubic inch stroker motor is 500 HP on my local engine dyno at my machine shop.
I have ported Edelbrock big port heads(l;ike the 690 big port heads) with a stock 2-4 409 intake with Edelbrock 2-4 carbs.

Paul
 
Tom Kochtanek

Tom Kochtanek

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Supporting Member 13
Assuming you are starting with a complete truck block, the most usable parts are the block, the crankshaft, the oil pan and perhaps the timing chain cover. You won't use the pistons, the camshaft, the intake and carb, or the distributor (maybe the latter as a priming tool). The 333 heads are reusable with a lot of mods, but as mentioned it's easier to get HP and torque out of heads that breath better.

So you're going to want lighter pistons (forged) and new rods (plenty of off the shelf options). New rockers and push rods. New gasket set. New bearings for crank and cam. Timing chain cover can be modified for your new damper.

It's best to decide what to aim for (HP and torque wise) then put a list of components together and seek those out. Get a competent machine shop assuming you will have some one else to the boring and assembly. "W" blocks are a bit different than the other members of the Chevy family, and an experienced machine shop will know the ins and outs of parts and assembly.

Good luck and have fun with your new build!

TomK
 
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1964SuperStocker

1964SuperStocker

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
pvs409 said:
My 65 409 truck motor with a 482 cubic inch stroker motor is 500 HP on my local engine dyno at my machine shop.
I have ported Edelbrock big port heads(l;ike the 690 big port heads) with a stock 2-4 409 intake with Edelbrock 2-4 carbs.

Paul
Click to expand...
Still think you only caught me at Tri-State because you hit the NOS. LOL! Not sure if you Noticed or not in the video but if you watch the 360VR video and watch you launch and start to chase me down. We were running at the same rate until your additional 200hp really kicked in.
 
pvs409

pvs409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 11
Yes I did actually shift out of 3rd into 4th just at the 1/4 mile finish(3:36 posi.... ) A note my Muncie 4 speed is actually overdrive in 4th gear (about .75 to 1) --thats right it so it slows down in 4th.......... :taunt
No hidden NOS :brow
That is changing, I am switching to a Richmond 5 speed in May. Also may change back to my 4:11 posi??? for faster launches :burnout
Yes I did have it floored to 6000 RPM -the dyno says it runs out of more power at 6000 RPM
The stroker really brings on the power after its rolling. :poke
Phil Reed has a special comment on what a stroker motor does......:yikes

now for more ......:munch
Paul
 
409gang

409gang

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
pvs409 said:
Yes I did actually shift out of 3rd into 4th just at the 1/4 mile finish(3:36 posi.... ) A note my Muncie 4 speed is actually overdrive in 4th gear (about .75 to 1) --thats right it so it slows down in 4th.......... :taunt
No hidden NOS :brow
That is changing, I am switching to a Richmond 5 speed in May. Also may change back to my 4:11 posi??? for faster launches :burnout
Yes I did have it floored to 6000 RPM -the dyno says it runs out of more power at 6000 RPM
The stroker really brings on the power after its rolling. :poke
Phil Reed has a special comment on what a stroker motor does......:yikes

now for more ......:munch
Paul
Click to expand...
What kind of gear set is that where it is overdriven in fourth?
 
pvs409

pvs409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 11
About 10 -15 years ago, you could buy a new set of Italian made gears for Muncie 4 speed transmissions.
its my understanding they are/were nice gears. The Italian company was bought out or stopped making the gear set -it changes I think everything inside the transmission from what Wayne Euper told me.

I had Wayne Euper build the transmission for my 1962 409 SS 500 HP Stroker motor Hardtop and one for a friends 62 409/409 SS at the same time frame.
Wayne passed a few years ago.. Many here knew him and got transmissions from him and sent him transmissions to rebuild.
I know he used to go to swap meets in Kansas. He was a GM dealer mechanic I think.

I think you could get the gears for about 7/8 years maybe more.
  • I saw a guy in Florida selling the transmission so I recall asking Wayne Euper in Missouri about the gears -and he either had them or got them and built the transmission that I have now ( he rebuilt the overdrive Muncie once for me when I ruined the synchronizers that I damaged by incorrect use (clutch was not releasing all the way)..... -its still great today about 10+ years later.
  • I am going to put the overdrive muncie transmission in my 62 Impala 327/300 HP 4 speed Hardtop and put a Richmond 5 speed in my 409 SS Hardtop
  • The Hurst competition plus shifter for a Muncie on the overdrive Muncie has one round arm that is put on the short 3/4 shifter arm upside down -so you do not need a special shifter.

  • Its too bad these Muncie overdrive gears are not still available since I paid around $1400 for the overdrive Muncie including the transmission -when compared to other $ 3400 plus overdrive transmissions most of which require major floor modifications in 61 to 64 Chevy's -making SS consoles difficult to reuse and to get the 5 or 6 speed overdrive fit the car without building a 2/3 inch minimum tunnel raised section.
Paul Stensland
 
pvs409

pvs409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 11
The two overdrive 4th gear Muncie’s that my friend and I have were built by Wayne Euper and the Italian gears were
put inside original used Muncie 4 speed cases. They do not and did not have new cases.
 
1958 delivery

1958 delivery

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
pvs409 said:
The two overdrive 4th gear Muncie’s that my friend and I have were built by Wayne Euper and the Italian gears were
put inside original used Muncie 4 speed cases. They do not and did not have new cases.
Click to expand...


Do you recall the ratios? Seems like there could be a large gap due to only 4 gears
 
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