I 8 Downtown PDX!!!

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
I hate down town PDX !!!
The bus mall is a nightmare and I got stuck in it yesterday !! Coming out of the parking garage mid block I got confused , crossed the streetcar tracks and ended in the bus lane. By the time I figured out what I was doing and what I did , I saw the "bus only" sign at the begining of the next block, it was too late. My only option was to turn right onto a car only street. Lights and siren blairing and Portlands finest flying up behind me in his little red Mustang GT!!!
OK,,, ready for this?? One ticket,,, Illegal right turn,,,, Price? $787 frickin` dollars!!!
Now,,, does the punishment fit the crime?? You tell me,,,
Yes,, I made a mistake,, yes the mall is confusing,, but the price of the ticket is WAY out of line,,,
I will not support downtown Portland,,:evil

My driving record is clean,, has been for years,,, I drive for a living and can say that who ever designed the mall had their head up their a**!!
I think the ticket was for turning right over the tracks not the right turn onto the car street,, either way it sucks,,
The stripping and signage,, or lack of it is confusing,,
 

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
:eek::eek:DAMN nearly 800.00 for an improper turn??????????:bang:evil:bang I just hope the law enforcement agencies around here dont get wind of that:cuss.Sorry to hear about this,DQ
 

Richard/SIA

Well Known Member
Time for some video, and a look at "Standards"....

Time for some video, and a look at "Standards" for the layout of the situation.

Find a retired traffic engineer (not the one who drew up your mess :eek:) and give him something to help you review the layout verse the standards.

You may not even have to prove the design is faulty, if you can confuse the judge or spook the county he may decide you are more trouble than the ticket is worth.

Got to love big government utopian mass transit "For the people" planning! :D :crazy
 

boxerdog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
If all else fails, go to court and plead ignorance, lack of familiarity, confusion, whatever. If the cop no-shows you might get off, or at least maybe the $$ would be reduced. That seems WAY out of line.
 

Phil Reed

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 10
That sucks Jim!!!!!!! In fact......it borders on illegal!!!!! Got a judge friend you can call????????? Were you driving the delivery truck or on your bike????
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
In my car,,, And pleading ignorance doesn't work when it comes to downtown!!
This city is anti-car,, pro bus, pro- light rail, BIG time pro-bicycles !!
They are taking out car lanes by the ton for bike lanes!!:cuss
Just going to court will drop the price a bit even if you plead no contest with an explanation.
I have been trying all morning to find out if this is the right amount on the ticket. Haven't got anywhere yet,, keep running into dead ends!!:bang
Called the court,, get a stupid recording,, no human,,
Called the PPD traffic division,, answering machine,,,
Went by the PPD traffic Div headquarters,, door locked,, no desk clerk!!!:doh

Yep,,, a fine country we live in!!

I think the cop meant to write $287 which sounds more like it but a few years back when the city and state needed money they jacked up the price of all tickets. Some fines were ridiculously priced like this one,,
I'm only hoping that it is the lower amount,,:deal
Stay tuned,,,,
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
I hate down town PDX !!!
The bus mall is a nightmare and I got stuck in it yesterday !! Coming out of the parking garage mid block I got confused , crossed the streetcar tracks and ended in the bus lane. By the time I figured out what I was doing and what I did , I saw the "bus only" sign at the begining of the next block, it was too late. My only option was to turn right onto a car only street. Lights and siren blairing and Portlands finest flying up behind me in his little red Mustang GT!!!
OK,,, ready for this?? One ticket,,, Illegal right turn,,,, Price? $787 frickin` dollars!!!
Now,,, does the punishment fit the crime?? You tell me,,,
Yes,, I made a mistake,, yes the mall is confusing,, but the price of the ticket is WAY out of line,,,
I will not support downtown Portland,,:evil

My driving record is clean,, has been for years,,, I drive for a living and can say that who ever designed the mall had their head up their a**!!
I think the ticket was for turning right over the tracks not the right turn onto the car street,, either way it sucks,,
The stripping and signage,, or lack of it is confusing,,

Did he cite you for violation of 811.355 or 811.360? There is no specific statute for "illegal right turn" so it should be:

811.355 Improperly executed right
turn; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense
of making an improperly executed right
turn if the person is operating a vehicle, is
intending to turn the vehicle to the right and
does not proceed as close as practicable to
the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway:
(a) In making the approach for a right
turn; and
(b) In making the right turn.
(2) The offense described in this section,
improperly executed right turn, is a Class B
traffic violation.
[1983 c.338 §627; 1995 c.383 §62]
or

811.360 When vehicle turn permitted
at stop light; improper turn at stop light;
penalty. (1) The driver of a vehicle, subject
to this section, who is intending to turn at
an intersection where there is a traffic control
device showing a steady circular red
signal or a steady red arrow signal may do
any of the following without violating ORS
811.260 and 811.265:
(a) Make a right turn into a two-way
street.
(b) Make a right or left turn into a oneway
street in the direction of traffic upon the
one-way street.
(2) A person commits the offense of improper
turn at a stop light if the person does
any of the following while making a turn
described in this section:
(a) Fails to stop at the light as required.
(b) Fails to exercise care to avoid an accident.
(c) Disobeys the directions of a traffic
control device or a police officer that prohibits
the turn.
(d) Fails to yield the right of way to
traffic lawfully within the intersection or
approaching so close as to constitute an immediate
hazard.
(3) A driver who is making a turn described
in this section is also subject to the
requirements under ORS 811.028 to stop for
a pedestrian while making the turn.
(4) The offense described in this section,
improper turn at a stop light, is a Class B
traffic violation.
[1983 c.338 §628; 1997 c.507 §7; 2003
c.278 §7; 2005 c.746 §3]
5]

153.018 Schedule of penalties. (1) The
penalty for committing a violation is a fine.
The law creating a violation may impose
other penalties in addition to a fine but may
not impose a term of imprisonment.
(2) Except as provided in this section, a
sentence to pay a fine for a violation shall
be a sentence to pay an amount not exceeding:
(a) $720 for a Class A violation.
(b) $360 for a Class B violation.
(c) $180 for a Class C violation.
(d) $90 for a Class D violation.
(e) The amount otherwise established by
law for any specific fine violation.
(3) If no special corporate fine is specified
in the law creating the violation, a sentence
to pay a fine for a violation committed
by a corporation shall be in an amount not
to exceed twice the fine established under
this section for a violation by an individual.
If a special corporate fine is specified in the
law creating the violation, the sentence to
pay a fine shall be governed by the law creating
the violation.
(4) If a person or corporation has gained
money or property through the commission
of a violation, instead of sentencing the defendant
to pay the fine provided for in subsection
(2) or (3) of this section, the court
may sentence the defendant to pay an
amount fixed by the court, not exceeding
double the amount of the defendant’s gain
from the commission of the violation. For the
purposes of this subsection, the defendant’s
gain is the amount of money or the value of
property, as determined under ORS 164.115,
derived from the commission of the violation,
less the amount of money or the value of
property, as determined under ORS 164.115,
returned to the victim of the violation or
seized by or surrendered to lawful authority
before the time sentence is imposed. [1999
c.1051 §6; 2003 c.737 §103]
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/forms/vehiclecodebk.shtml
 

tripower

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
In my car,,, And pleading ignorance doesn't work when it comes to downtown!!
This city is anti-car,, pro bus, pro- light rail, BIG time pro-bicycles !!
They are taking out car lanes by the ton for bike lanes!!:cuss

Jim, Sorry to hear of your latest endeavor but, let me rephrase the first part of your paragraph for you....... PRO LIBERAL.......:deal
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Did he cite you for violation of 811.355 or 811.360? There is no specific statute for "illegal right turn" so it should be:
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/forms/vehiclecodebk.shtml
Thanks for your time dog!!
I found this link today:
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/traffic_newsletter/ATT1.pdf?ga=t

The violation stated on the ticket is 811-265( I think , the two could be a 7 but no such violation so that makes that first number in the fine more likely a 2 also) ,Failure to Obey Traffic control Device, as far as I can tell from trying to read his scribble.
The "Base Fine" for that should be $242,,
But trying to read his amount the first number could be a 7 or a 2, the second and third are defiantly an 8 (or could be a 3) and a 7.
So it could either be a $787 or $287 fine. But none of those figures show up on the Base Fine Schedule? Go figure,,,:?
It does look more like it`s 200 something though which is better, I guess.
The scan of the ticket actually made it easier to read.
 

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dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Also posted in "what is it"

One part that I failed to mention,,,

Just as the Officer was walking back to my T-Bird he asked? "What year is your car?"
When I answered " It`s an 88 " He says 'Really nice shape"!:pray

Then he hands me the ticket!!!:roll:grumble:

For a split second,, I though I was getting off without a ticket!!:beerbang

He did say he was letting me off easy by not issuing tickets for the other two violations I commited!!
He said he sofftened the blow a bit,,, then i saw that fine amount !:eek:
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Jim,
It has to be 811.265 and 811.260 defines the specific criteria for the violation. Sounds like you must have made a right turn on a red right turrn arrow or something like that.:dunno
 

plumcrazy

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 6
Geeze, all I got was burning when i went to the bathroom and a shot the clinic the last time I went down the wrong street when I was stationed in Korea. I guess I was lucky :crazy:crazy:crazy
 
S

Swiss Impala

Guest
The same here in Switzerland: maybe even worse!!!!:cuss
The government says they want to have more discipline on the roads.
I can live with that, it is okay, but not by punishing without educating.
And if you have to pay such amounts of money :evil for doing nearly nothing
and if judges do not even take into consideration if you did not have tickets for years, then I think they only want to see money!!! :eek:

I could tell you about two people here (doing nothing that was really bad or dangerous) who could not accept that they should not drive for one month plus paying Swiss Francs 720.--!
They drove their cars nevertheless and were caught!! Now the disaster began.
They were not allowed to drive a car for one year and they had to pay
Swiss Francs 10'000.-- (approximately US $ 10'000.--) or working in
a social job for 720 hours, what means 18 weeks at 40 hours a week! :eek:

Both are respectable citizens!:clap

So this is not punishment or education, but robbery and they even can destroy somebody's career!
Our government is worse than the robbery barons :evil in the Middle Ages.

So these modern robbery barons should better read history books
to learn what the old Eidgenossen, the founders of Switzerland, did with
robbery barons!!!! :D:eek:

Franz

PS. I know it should not be a political forum, but nowadays cars and driving cars have become a political theme. Unfortunately for enthusiasts like us!:cry
 

skipxt4

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 18
I may be wrong, dq,:rolleyes:it looks like $ 287.00 to me.:clap:clap:clap Even that 's a big ripoff.:doh:bang
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
I may be wrong, dq,:rolleyes:it looks like $ 287.00 to me.:clap:clap:clap Even that 's a big ripoff.:doh:bang

I could or can handle the lower amount but none of the number add up or cross reference. I'll been doing more about figuring it out this week.
I think it should be $242.
I'm now sure that what I that the "Control Devise" was the road bumps that seperate the Car lane from the Street Car tracks.
 

Richard/SIA

Well Known Member
In a any "Fair" court the charge has to be clear

In a any "Fair" court the charge has to be clear and the correct statute has to be cited.

Wrong statute cited indicates that the cop is sloppy, perhaps rushing to fill his quota, not doing his job properly, and a good reason for dismissal.

Add in the poorly designed layout, I would begin by asking that the judge "dismiss in the interest of justice".
I've done that a few times, and it's even worked occasionally.
It is NOT one of the options the judge offers when court begins, so it takes them by surprise.
This usually gets you a chance to explain what really happened, and at least a significant reduction in the fine if it is not fixed by statute.
Beats Nolo-contendre as a plea, even if the result is the same.

Back before the liberals took over the courts to fund their feel good programs there used to be a question of intent required for conviction.

Too bad the cops no longer concern themselves with criminals and now concentrate on being "Revenue Enhancement Officers". :rolleyes:
 
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