new zinc additive

w ogden

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
I just returned from a car show in Rhinebeck, NY where I met a new vendor that is manufacturing a zinc additive that should be the answer for our engine wear in issues. Talked to the President of the company, Tim Miranda. He is an oil engineer with Castrol and saw a need for this additve so he has formed a company called Cam Shield which produces a additve with 88000 ppm as compared to EOS at 6000, STP at 22000 and Zdd plus at 60000. This sells for 13.95 for the 4 ounce bottle and 21.95 for the 8 ounce. Visit his web site at www.cam-shield.com for more info. This guy seems to know what he is talking about so this may be something of interest to the forum members. His toll free number is 866-677-7670.
 

vin 58

 
Supporting Member 1
The wife and I were at Rhinebeck too on sat. I actually spent my 50th birhtday there. Me and my car are 50 this year. I saw that additive too and was wondering about it. I saw some moon valve covers for $325 thought that was a little high. How about that 62 409 belair that won coolest 60's car.
 

valvefloat

Well Known Member
Thanks for the heads up. I just put the STP product in my older cars. I'm all for the higher count. Got an idea were to get it? I need to do a change in my dads 71 delta conv. I was planning on the stp product again. I never heard of Zdd. Where can you get that?
 

w ogden

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
I guess that you can order his product on line thru his web site. I don't believe he has a distribution network at this time. Give the web site a try. Walt
 

BARRYS770

 
Supporting Member 1
Comp Cams has an oil supplement additive that they recomend for camshaft protection. It is their part # 159 and is available through Summit as their # cca-159

Barry
 

bobs409

 
Administrator
I use this now. I buy it locally. You can get it on Ebay also. $10.00

http://www.zddplus.com/


Thanks guys, I just ordered a 6 pack. $5.00 off so I paid $54.96 plus $6 shipping.


This will be the first time since I broke the 409 in that I put any additives in the oil. These modern times SUCK! Pay enormous prices for gas and oil, then have to buy additives for the oil or get 10% crap ethenol in the gas! :cuss
 

oil4kids

Well Known Member
simply having high levels of zinc is not sufficient to effectively minimize wear

more then 2000 ppm is a waste as far as im concerned,

i refer you to comparison of motor oils

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

look at page 12

the oil with the most zinc 2500 ppm was NOT as good as the oil with 1400 ppm

zinc is a sacraficial metal and the more metal you have in oil the less it lubricates!!

buyer beware!
 

bobs409

 
Administrator
simply having high levels of zinc is not sufficient to effectively minimize wear

more then 2000 ppm is a waste as far as im concerned,


All of this is new to me so I don't know a thing about it. I just don't want to damage my engines. If having more than 2000 ppm is a waste, would it be a good idea to maybe use less of this additive? Maybe use half what they call for?

Thoughts?


Thanks,


Bob
 

WSSmolick

Well Known Member
simply having high levels of zinc is not sufficient to effectively minimize wear

more then 2000 ppm is a waste as far as im concerned,

i refer you to comparison of motor oils

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

look at page 12

the oil with the most zinc 2500 ppm was NOT as good as the oil with 1400 ppm

zinc is a sacraficial metal and the more metal you have in oil the less it lubricates!!

buyer beware!

You're absolutely right! It isn't the zinc that protects the cam and lifters, it's the zinc-containing compound - ZDDP. ZDDP is something like zinc dialkyl dithio phosphate. The zinc alone doesn't offer any wear protection. I bought the ZDDPlus additive too to add with my next oil change. ZDDPlus was fairly easy to obtain; I actually bought mine on the internet. I couldn't get AMSOil without driving across town, plus I think it's expensive.
 
Info from Cam-shield(TM)

Hello,
Very interesting thread. If I may, I'd like to offer some insights on the issue of current engine oils and flat tappet cams.

Yes, the current API SM/ILSAC GF-4 engine oils are subject to industry limits on Sulfur and Phosphorus. This is to provide additional life to the catalyst. Sulfur and Phosphorus are know to degrade the catalyst effectiveness. The allowable levels of Sulfur and Phosphorus in engine oils have been declining for the past few API gasoline performance categories, the latest, SM, seeing the largest decrease. In API SM/ILSAC GF-4, Phosphorus is limited to 0.08 weght percent maximum (800 parts per million (ppm)). Sulfur is 0.5 weight percent. The API SM/ILSAC GF-4 grades are referred to as the fuel economy grades and are 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30, and qualified 10W-30's. The API SM grades that are not ILSAC GF-4 fuel economy grades are 5W-40, 10W-40, 15W-40, 5W-50, 10W-50, 15W-50, 20W-50. Many of these products are manufactured with the same additive packages as the fuel economy grades and thus may also be 0.08 weight % Phosphorus.

As it turns out, the anti-wear chemistry in engine oils, ZDDP (Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) is a Phosphorus, Sulfur, Zinc and hydrocarbon branch molecule. In order to lower Phos to 0.08wt %, the ZDDP level needed to be reduced. The current fleet of modern vehicles has different engine designs (roller lifters, lighter valve spring pressures, overhead cams) and is not impacted by the level of anti-wear in SM/GF-4 oils. Classic engines with flat tappet cams with heavier valves and higher valve spring pressures do need the higher level of ZDDP anti-wear for cam/lifter/valve-train protection. For reference, it is easiest to indicate the ppm concentration of ZDDP in an engine oil by denoting the Zinc concentration in ppm since Sulfur, Phosphorus, and hydrocarbons can be present from other components.

ZDDP is a sacrificial substance that is critical to the anti-wear protection of metal surfaces within the engine. ZDDP's role as an anti-wear agent is most noteble at the cam lobe and lifter interface where the load exerted between the opposing surfaces (from the valve spring pressure) is great enough to breach the oil film, regardless of base oil viscosity. ZDDP is attracted to metal surfaces and is activated at those surfaces by heat and pressure. Without ZDDP, metal to metal contact between the cam lobe and lifter surface would occur and wear would increase dramatically at this interface, leading to component failure. As valve spring pressure and engine rpm's increase, the concentration of ZDDP needed in the oil must also increase for proper cam/lifter/valve-train protection. ZDDP is not a new technology, it has been used in engine oils since the 1930's. There are different types of ZDDP chemistries and it is important for an oil formulator to select the correct type(s) for the application.

API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oil is limited to 800 ppm of Phosphorus, which equates to approximately 850 to 900 ppm of Zinc. For moderately sprung flat tappet cams (hydraulic or solid), the minimum concentration of Zinc (Zn) for adequate cam and lifter protection is generally agreed to be 1200 to 1300 ppm Zn. For muscle cars (higher valve spring pressures), 1600 ppm Zn is considered to safely provide protection. For racing (higher spring pressures and higher rpm's), approximately 2000 ppm Zn is the typical target. For break-in of a new cam and lifters, 2000 to 2500 ppm Zn provides the proper level of protection (in combination with the molybdenum based cam lobe grease). Clearly, SM/GF-4 oils need additional ZDDP to properly protect classic car/hot rod/race car flat tappet cams and lifters and valve trains. Note that roller cams with high valve spring pressures are not immune either since the push rod ends and valve tips are subject to intense loading also and must be provided with sufficient anti-wear protection.

Neither GM EOS nor STP provide sufficient concentration of ZDDP in a single dose to raise SM/GF-4 oils to the proper level of protection for the classic flat tappet cam and lifter. Additionally, these products are in 15 and 16 ounce containers, which results in dilution of the engine oil. A much higher concentration of ZDDP is required to accomplish the job. Cam-shield(TM) is the most concentrated ZDDP additive available on the market (at least 30% more than ZDDPlus) so that the engine oil is not diluted and the performance integrity of the oil is maintained. Cam-shield(TM) was designed (by a race oil engineer at a major oil company) to be added to the user's favorite engine oil (conventional or synthetic) for either break-in or for normal operation (no other product is concentrated or flexible enough to be able to do this). Only 1/4 ounce is needed per quart of oil for normal operation (adds 800 ppm Zn to the 850ppm Zn in SM/GF-4 oil). For break-in or racing, only 1/2 ounce is needed per quart of oil (adds 1600 ppm). Cam-shield(TM) is a proprietary blend of primary and secondary ZDDP which gives full temperature range anti-wear coverage (start-up to operation). Cam-shield(TM)'s proprietary ZDDP has been proven in both street oils and at the highest levels of professional motorsports. Cam-shield(TM) is available in two sizes and clearly provides the best value available to consumers and businesses. The 4 ounce bottle ($13.95) treats up to 16 quarts (that's 3+ bottles of ZDDPlus = $29.85 +) and the 8 ounce bottle ($21.95) treats up to 32 quarts (that's 6+ bottles of ZDDPlus = $59.70). Cam-shield(TM)'s unique bottle allows the user to treat any size oil volume at oil change or top-up in between changes.

Note that neither diesel oil or racing oil are formulated for continual use in a street driven gasoline engine. Diesel oil is formulated with very high levels of detergency to combat soot. Detergency competes directly with ZDDP for the metal surface. Diesel is also generally formulated with primary ZDDP whereas gasoline oils require primary and secondary ZDDP. Additionally, due to different operating regimes (rpm ranges and loads), diesel oils and gasoline oils generally require different viscosity modifier polymers for proper bearing protection. Racing oils are formulated for the track and typically contain much lower levels of detergency and dispersancy than what is needed for a street driven gasoline engine, particularly a classic car or hot rod that may sit in the garage for weeks between runs.

Hope this was helpful.
Tim at Cam-shield(TM), www.cam-shield.com
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Tim, First let me say thank you for the input. This subject has been discussed here before, but we only know what we read. Many on this web-site has done research , trying to get solid information on this subject. I will provide a link from an old discussion and plese note the chart that Skip Fix provided. If I read the chart correctly, Valvoline Racing contains 2,000ppm,,, Shell Truckguard 1,500ppm and Kendall GT=1 1,600ppm. As you addressed, Racing oil and diesel oil have drawbacks when used in muscle car - performance street engines. My question is,, can a person use to much additive?? Is there a problem with 2,000ppm in a performance street application , if used as a normal supplement?? Some of our 409s cost alot to build. Can we be assured 1,600 ppm is enough.? I think most of us would use 2,000ppm for extra insurance. The link provided was discussion from over 2 years ago. Have there been more zinc removal from common oils since then? So I guess the bottom line would be,, select an oil designed for passenger cars and use an additive to achieve 1,600ppm and shoot for 2,500ppm for cam break-in. Of course that would mean we have to know the zinc content of the oil we use, ( so we can add the correct amount of additive ) and trust the company to provide correct numbers and hope more zinc is not removed in the future. Again, thanks for your input. OOps, link did not work, will supply in next post.
 

jr.W

Well Known Member
Tim I would like to thank you as well. A ? as Ronnie had posted. Where do we
find the info on the zddp content of the most current shelf oils.
 

jester

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
oils

There is a lot of great information here but it would be great if someone would evaluate it and tell me what oil combo I should be using. Thanks:doh
 
Hello Again, Tim @ Cam-shield(TM)

Hello again and thanks for the great questions. Here is some more information that I hope will address the questions.
1) Where find the Zn ppm levels in current oils.
* I am not aware of any single source that lists this information. I can tell you from first hand experience that it would be very difficult and very expensive (ASTM D-5185 ICP elemental analysis is $30 to $50 per sample) to keep such a list current since all oil companies change their formulas occasionally for marketing or production or economic reasons, and most oil companies may also have regional variations in formulas due to component sourcing. Current API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oil from the major oil companies will be conforming to the industry Phos limit which means that the Zinc (from ZDDP) level will be approximately 850 ppm.
2) Can too much ZDDP be used ?
* The Zn level in the finished oil (after treatment) should be set to the minimum needed for the application. Any additional above that minimum level will not be harmful. As a side benefit, ZDDP also imparts anti-oxidancy performance to the oil. Unless a cam/lifter break-in is the order for the day, there is not much to be gained from going over 2000 ppm.
3) Is 1600 ppm enough for a muscle car ?
* Yes, 1600 ppm Zn will be sufficient for muscle cars. My custom NHRA Pro-stock race oils for national tour teams have approximately 1700 to 1900 ppm Zn. If you have installed a radical cam with race level springs, then you certainly can consider bumping up towards 2000 ppm for extra insurance on your investment.
4) Has ZDDP been lowered more in the last 2 years ?
* No, the ZDDP level was lowered to meet the current Phos limitation for SM/GF-4 oils when the category was first licenseable in mid-2004. It took some time before the SM/GF-4 oils started hitting the store shelves in earnest. There has not been any changes in the Phos limits since the category was introduced. Note that the next API performance category up-grade is due circa mid-2010 and the Phos limit is yet to be determined - it will not be raised but is likely to either stay at 0.08 wt % or be lowered slightly (somewhere between 0.07 and 0.08 wt %).
5) What combination should I use to avoid confusion ?
* May I suggest selecting your favorite engine oil and your favorite viscosity grade that you have always used for your classic car or hot rod and then determining the type of operation that you will be putting the engine through; there are 3 choices here: new cam break-in or normal operation or racing. Add enough ZDDP concentrate to get to the appropriate concentration for that application. Minimum of 1200 to 1300 ppm Zinc for normal operation with moderate spring pressures, circa 1600 for muscle cars, circa 2000 ppm for racing, and circa 2500 ppm for new cam/lifter break-in (supplementing the cam lobe moly break-in paste). Current API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils will have approximately 850 ppm Zn. Cam-shield(TM) is the only product concentrated enough to allow you to treat for break-in or racing or normal operation. 1/4 ounce per quart adds 800 ppm Zn, 1/2 ounce per quart adds 1600 ppm Zn.
Hope this helps and that I did not miss any questions.
Happy motoring !
Tim, Cam-shield(TM) Lubricants
 

WSSmolick

Well Known Member
I have to check out this Cam-Shield. I'd rather use it than ZDDPlus if it's a cheaper add and it won't dilute the oil as much.
 
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