NHRA "Factory Experimental" classes...

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George Klass

Well Known Member
What happened to Chevrolet in the F/X classes? Chevy never actually had a full blown factory supported F/X team. The Z-11 was created as a Super Stock car, and NHRA should have permitted it to run in the S/S class. They didn't, unfortunately. Ford did have a F/X team (the Mustangs). Pontiac had a F/X team (the LeMans team). Mercury had a F/X team. Dodge and Plymouth never had a full-size F/X car team, only the altered wheelbase cars which NHRA refused to accept. I realize that GM was somewhat nervous about the Feds, etc., but Chevy could have easily created a "drop-in kit" to install the 427 engine into either a Chevelle or a Nova. The "kit" would be sold to the customer by the dealer, to do his own installation; the customer would have to purchase the engine and his own Chevelle or Nova. Chevy could have saved a lot of cash using this idea, and would also have created a cracker jack F/X car...

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These cars were not built at the factory, the owners purchased the cars and installed the engines themselves, all of which was approved by NHRA...
 
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63 dream'n

63 dream'n

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 4
George Klass said:
What happened to Chevrolet in the F/X classes? Chevy never actually had a full blown factory supported F/X team. The Z-11 was created as a Super Stock car, and NHRA should have permitted it to run in the S/S class. They didn't, unfortunately. Ford did have a F/X team (the Mustangs). Pontiac had a F/X team (the LeMans team). Mercury had a F/X team. Dodge and Plymouth never had a full-size F/X car team, only the altered wheelbase cars which NHRA refused to accept. I realize that GM was somewhat nervous about the Feds, etc., but Chevy could have easily created a "drop-in kit" to install the 427 engine into either a Chevelle or a Nova. The "kit" would be sold to the customer by the dealer, to do his own installation; the customer would have to purchase the engine and his own Chevelle or Nova. Chevy could have saved a lot of cash using this idea, and would also have created a cracker jack F/X car...

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These cars were not built at the factory, the owners purchased the cars and installed the engines themselves, all of which was approved by NHRA...
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Why did not Chevy build the 100 cars that would’ve been required for the 63Z 11 to partake in the superstock class …?…..they had 50 more cars to build and they would’ve been guaranteed to run in super stock…!!!…… if that was their plan the entire time ……..why did it ever come to fruition??

I know about the Racing edict or ban from Racing in 1963, it must’ve come mid season 63…..???? that’s why they never finished building the other 50 cars……????
 
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George Klass

Well Known Member
Good questions, Keith. I guess that we will never know the answers. I do remember that when I purchased my '62 409 Chevy it was not much more expensive that the new car price of the same car equipped with a 348 engine. Either engine would have been NHRA legal. Dyno Don's 1961 bubble top was delivered with the 348 engine, which was swapped for the 409 engine by Bill Thomas.
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George Klass

Well Known Member
When the F/X class was started (in 1962), the primary focus by NHRA was the engines, and not the cars themselves. The NHRA Rulebook stipulated: "The Factory Experimental class is for stock automobiles that use manufactures optional equipment that are not necessarily factory assembly-line installed, or show-room sales available." From the Chevy standpoint, once the Z-11 engine was created (for 1963), it was illegal to bore and stroke a 409 out to 427 inches, the Rulebook required that the engine had to be a "stock" engine combination manufactured by GM. I don't know how many actual 427 engines were produced and sold through the dealers, but it would have been more practical and less costly than manufacturing the cars themselves. A 1963 Chevy Nova, purchased by the customer at a Chevy dealer, and equipped with the over the counter 427 Z-11 engine, purchased separately by the customer, (and installed by the customer), even with all the OEM steel body components, was lighter weight than the Z-11 Impala...
 
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George Klass

Well Known Member
The beginning of the F/X classes began in 1962, and ended in 1966, when Ford and Chrysler executives decided the outrageous flip-tops and altered-wheelbase race cars had evolved to a point where there was too much disconnect with the showroom models they were supposed to be promoting. Chevy never complained, as they never fielded an F/X team...
 
Blk61409

Blk61409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 9
When I worked for a couple of Chevy dealers, 1963-1969, I was told by several Chevy engineers not only were the insurance companies after them over higher performance cars, but also the Feds. Chevrolet had an incredibly high market share by itself. Because of their volume Chevrolet was the target.
I remember trying to see if I could order the part numbers Cecil posted in the magazine. They would only have been released by authorization like Z-11 stuff.
I can share we could get some free stuff for racing after the shut down came. We received a 430 short block, free. While only 3 cu inches larger the rotating assembly was different than the 427. Chevrolet wanted to keep people in racing out the back door. I know of an Olds dealer that got a 6 deuce intake for a 455 engine. Crazy!!
Some dealerships I know received engines, transmissions, etc.

So while Chevy could not field “official AFX” teams the parts were flowing.

In addition, NHRA/AHRA local tracks interpreted the rules differently it always seemed like Chevy was the target.

No matter what, the greatest racing years ever!!!
 
Blk61409

Blk61409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 9
I have to add since Barry reminded me, you could order engines off the assembly lines.

I remember a guy that drove in with his Austin Healey 3000.

I thought what’s this “pipe smoker” doing here?

Well, I opened the hood and there was a 61 283 FI 4 speed the dealership had ordered and installed for the customer!

That’s when I learned about “off the assembly line” engines.

That’s how Chevy filled orders for the engines for customers.

Kind of like how Carroll Shelby did with ordering 3 1959 Corvettes without the bodies. He shipped them to Scaglietti in Italy to build aluminum bodies for them.

That’s really interesting because Shelby tried to get Chevy to provide engines for the AC Cobras. That’s another story.

Anyway, the 327 FI 4 speeds for the Novas and station wagons were very special!!!
 
Z-11Guy

Z-11Guy

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
As a lot of you who were there then can recall the fuelie 283 and 327’s were a bit complex for the average mom and pops Chevrolet dealer techs. Usually one would have to drive out of their way to find a Chevrolet performance dealership. That being said we also have to remember just how popular the 327 option was. Standard on Corvette though a huge success on full size car production. When the Chevelle was introduced in ‘64 Chevrolet had plans to offer the 427 Mystery engine (not Z-11 427j and fiberglass panels in the 300 series as a drag package which would have been a bombshell. Also Chevrolet was going to offer the L76 solid lifter 327/365 HP engine on all Chevelle models with manual transmissions only. Going back to the success of the 327 Chevrolet made up some kind of excuse that 327 Tonawanda supply chain was overbooked for Canada (Canadian big Pontiacs) and big Chevy production therefore only offered on Stingray. Then in 1965 the L79 was introduced for Chevelle. The Z-11 427 QM engine assembly were casted August or early September 1962 (50 complete QM engines) and shipped to Flint MI to mate with 50 Impala coupes. Another batch of QM engines were in the works at Tonawanda before being shut down. As a result only 20 QM short blocks were produced along with more Z-11 heads, intakes (including single 4 barrel Nascar versions) from winters foundary. A few of these short blocks, heads and single 4 barrel intakes were traded to Ray Fox and Smokey Yunick in return for the Mystery engine 427’s back. Whether this actually happened one would never know. I do know Bob Tucker with his Z-11 in Orlando got help from Yunick with heads when Rathmann Chevrolet ran dry so something happened there. Chevrolet’s intention was to produce more 1963 Z-11 Chevrolet’s though was cut short. They would of been S/S eligible if the last 50 QM engines made it to Flint. Oh well that’s history, I wasn’t born then, wish I was born in 1940’s to enjoy the scene then.
 
BSL409

BSL409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 6
Z-11Guy said:
As a lot of you who were there then can recall the fuelie 283 and 327’s were a bit complex for the average mom and pops Chevrolet dealer techs. Usually one would have to drive out of their way to find a Chevrolet performance dealership. That being said we also have to remember just how popular the 327 option was. Standard on Corvette though a huge success on full size car production. When the Chevelle was introduced in ‘64 Chevrolet had plans to offer the 427 Mystery engine (not Z-11 427j and fiberglass panels in the 300 series as a drag package which would have been a bombshell. Also Chevrolet was going to offer the L76 solid lifter 327/365 HP engine on all Chevelle models with manual transmissions only. Going back to the success of the 327 Chevrolet made up some kind of excuse that 327 Tonawanda supply chain was overbooked for Canada (Canadian big Pontiacs) and big Chevy production therefore only offered on Stingray. Then in 1965 the L79 was introduced for Chevelle. The Z-11 427 QM engine assembly were casted August or early September 1962 (50 complete QM engines) and shipped to Flint MI to mate with 50 Impala coupes. Another batch of QM engines were in the works at Tonawanda before being shut down. As a result only 20 QM short blocks were produced along with more Z-11 heads, intakes (including single 4 barrel Nascar versions) from winters foundary. A few of these short blocks, heads and single 4 barrel intakes were traded to Ray Fox and Smokey Yunick in return for the Mystery engine 427’s back. Whether this actually happened one would never know. I do know Bob Tucker with his Z-11 in Orlando got help from Yunick with heads when Rathmann Chevrolet ran dry so something happened there. Chevrolet’s intention was to produce more 1963 Z-11 Chevrolet’s though was cut short. They would of been S/S eligible if the last 50 QM engines made it to Flint. Oh well that’s history, I wasn’t born then, wish I was born in 1940’s to enjoy the scene then.
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So were most of the Z11 cars built in Flint then ?
 
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heddrik

Well Known Member
I saw an aluminum 62 front end on a Bel Air, was that possible from the factory or were they all Impalas??
 
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