Originally with 348???

[303Radar]

After looking at the 348/409 identification page http://www.348-409.com/348409identify.html I'm beginning to wonder if the 348 in my '59 El Camino is correct.

The engine is a 348, code T924h. While this seems to be correct for a 59, the emblem though are for the 283. Chrome V no flags.

I can't find anything from the VIN which helps. The VIN is:
H59L-183587

What I've deciphered so far is, the car was orginally white (and still is), made in LA and 8 cylinders.

The trim code(s) don't elaborate but the info from the plate is:
Style E59-1280
Body VN 5468
Trim 803

I guess my question is, did they run out of the correct trim during the production of my El Camino or is it more likely that someone did an engine swap and happened to put in an engine which is the same year as the car?

Any insight/thoughts are appreciated

Thanks,
Ragan

 

[oldskydog]

I wouldn't rely much on the emblems, the hood could have been replaced or the emblem replaced.

The H in the stamp pad assembly number indicates a 250 hp with turboglide....does your El Camino have a turboglide trans and appropriate shifter (GR) markings? The engine assembly date of Sept 24 should be a clue depending on the casting date...is it 58 or 59? Your trim tag shows a V8 model (1280) and was the 5,468th El Camino body assembled at the Van Nuys plant. The VIN confirms the V8 engine with the first character H . You didn't give the body assembly date but I believe it should be on a 59 trim tag. If it is there then the engine and all other components should predate that assembly date. If your trim tag doesn't have the body build date, then you have to look for other clues beginnning with the casting dates on the engine block, heads, and any other dated components in the engine compartment as well as the rear axle center section to see if all the dates are reasonable. There are other dates to look for like on the back of the speedometer and/or clock where an assembly date ink stamp may still be visible. Any original glass shoud have a 2 letter LOF code which can also be a clue to when the car was built. Unfortunately I haven't seen any list of end of month last built VIN numbers for these like there is for the Corvettes and 55-57 Chevy so one could only estimate the build date by estimating the number of units built per day, week, or month. The regular passenger car rate was well in excess of 500 cars a day in some plants, but the El Camino was somewhat of a limited production model and the daily production rate should be much lower and more sporadic so it would be hard to estimate. I believe there were somewhere around 15,000 built in 59.

Other clues should be a 3/8ths fuel line which should go under the right front A-arm although a 4 barrel 283 would also have that as well. 348 would have dual exhaust and the fuel line should run on the outside of the frame then cross over to run inside the driveshaft tunnel...again a 4 barrel 283 would be the same but a 2 barrel would have single exhaust and would not run in the tunnel.

The wiring harness could also give clues.The 59 had the resistor built into the harness so no resistor on the firewall unless it was a solid lifter engine. The 348 cars came with a 61 amp/hour battery and the others had a 53 amp/hour batt. I suspect that because of the extra amperage the hot wire from the positive term to the voltage regulator was probably 10 guage instead of the standard 12 guage. The 348 voltage regulator mounted to the radiator support using ONLY the top two holes with a rubber shock mount replacing the bottom mounting screw....all others used three mounting screws.

The 348 cars came with 3:36 rear on standard trans and 3:08 on automatics.

I'm sure there are other clues and others will probably chime in with additions/corrections.

 

[303Radar]

I'll Check...

Cecil,

Thanks for the information. I'm going to be "working from home" tomorrow and I'll take a look at what I can. I have the car nearly disassembled. Once I get the body on a stand, I'll take a look at the date stamp on the back of the engine. I don't want to remove the valve covers until I'm closer to doing the engine work. The heads appear to have cooling jackets around the plugs but I don't know that it helps this discussion very much.

When I took the steering column apart, there was no marking for "GR". I believe there was "D" then "1" or "L". I'm confident it is a PG rather than TG. At least my dad claimed it was a PG.

I do know it has dual exhaust. I'm sure the mufflers are after market because they appear to be glass packs, kind of like Cherry Bombs.

I have checked the rear axle a couple of times for stampings but I'm not able to find any. I'm hoping once I can roll the frame out from the body, I can see what the stampings are. I can say the rear axle looks more like a nine inch (removable front section) rather than what I'm used to on GM products (rear diff covers).

I'll have to look at the wiring harness again. It is in a box some in the garage. It seems to me there was no resistor but I've slept since removing the wiring harness.

I'll post what I find tomorrow possibly with some pics.

Thanks for the info!

Ragan

 

[60Impala4Dad]

Ragan,

The "9 inch" type rear that you see in your car is a GM Eaton 10bolt style. It is correct for your car as far as design goes. To check the codes on the rear the numbers should still be there, stamped on the casting of the removable center section. If I can find a photo I'll post it. The codes should tell you that the rear is correct for a particular engine, engine HP, and transmission type (3spd, 4spd, PG, or TG), and sometimes even for a certain carburetor.

The whole story put together tells the tale, not just one piece of the puzzle. Since there were no serial numbers put on the motor to match the VIN the bottom line is that someone could have swapped that motor into your car, but it would have been really hard to do so without having something mismatched. The engine date codes and stampings tell you what the engine is and pretty much when it was made. All engine date codes must pre-date the assembly date of your car. The rear must match the transmission and engine, etc etc etc.

Keep us posted.
Doc

Cecil,

Thanks for the information. I'm going to be "working from home" tomorrow and I'll take a look at what I can. I have the car nearly disassembled. Once I get the body on a stand, I'll take a look at the date stamp on the back of the engine. I don't want to remove the valve covers until I'm closer to doing the engine work. The heads appear to have cooling jackets around the plugs but I don't know that it helps this discussion very much.

When I took the steering column apart, there was no marking for "GR". I believe there was "D" then "1" or "L". I'm confident it is a PG rather than TG. At least my dad claimed it was a PG.

I do know it has dual exhaust. I'm sure the mufflers are after market because they appear to be glass packs, kind of like Cherry Bombs.

I have checked the rear axle a couple of times for stampings but I'm not able to find any. I'm hoping once I can roll the frame out from the body, I can see what the stampings are. I can say the rear axle looks more like a nine inch (removable front section) rather than what I'm used to on GM products (rear diff covers).

I'll have to look at the wiring harness again. It is in a box some in the garage. It seems to me there was no resistor but I've slept since removing the wiring harness.

I'll post what I find tomorrow possibly with some pics.

Thanks for the info!

Ragan

 

[60Impala4Dad]

Here are two photos. One is of the fuel line that Cecil talked about. This is on my dad's 60 Impala with a 348. The other is the stamped code on the rear end center section that I almost wiped right off with a sanding disc. Be careful removing the rust to find this or you just might do what I did, or worse.
Doc

 

[62BillT]

One thing about Turboglides is that many of them were changed out. The dealer changed many of them themselves and I'm sure they would have gone ahead and changed the trans indicator too. If the dealer didn't change it many people did on their own years later. I'm not sure if there is any tell-tale sign that a TG was once in a car.

Bill

 

[60Impala4Dad]

No.

----------------------------------------
That is not exactly true. The suffix code on the engine block will tell you what the engine orginally had behind it, as it indicates not only if it was an auto or manual, but it also indicates what type of auto (PG or TG). FYI, the suffix code also indicates what type of carburetion (4bbl, three 2's, etc) came on the car.

Doc

 

[62BillT]

That is all good info, but what I was getting at is I'm not sure if there is a way to tell if a TG was ever in a certain car, if the case was that the original engine was no longer in there (ie: different shift linkage brackets, etc).

May be irrelevent in this case, but that's all I was getting at.

Bill