Patriot header, not clearing control arms?

hot_rod_hooligans

hot_rod_hooligans

Well Known Member
61 Impala, 409, Edelbrock heads, Air Ride, Patriot headers aren't clearing the upper control arms, not sure if there is something we are missing or if there is a header that fits better? Thought about turning the bolts around so all we had to deal with was the head, but even then it doesn't look like it will clear.
I'm not opposed to sending these back and getting a different set, I'm not impressed with the construction of theses and the welds are ugly, both inside and out.
 

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hot_rod_hooligans

hot_rod_hooligans

Well Known Member
image.jpg image.jpgOriginally we were going to try to get Doug's Headers but when we went to order them we were told they were no longer in production. After calling Pertronix, they said that the Partoit headers replaced them, so we ordered them instead. Needless to say I'm a bit disappointed in these, on multiple levels.
 
pvs409

pvs409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 11
I am using Jardine 2" headers for my 409 stroker motor and they clear the A-Arm just fine. I did have to cut off the end of one of the bolts that hold the A-arm to the frame(drivers side only). I can provide a number of pictures from below and above if you are interested + pictures off the car. Jardines are sold in different tube sizes from 1 & 3/4 " to 1 & 7/8" and to 2" to 2 & 1/8" plus 2 & 1/4" sizes. If you have a scattershield the Jardines have to be made to fit(I have a scattershield).
I got my Jardines jet coated in Waverly, Nebraska (Moore Performance Coating -http://www.moorepower.com/performance_coatings/ )

Also Doug Thorley Tri Y headers are a direct bolt in no modifications but the tube size is small - 1 & 3/4" (only size)- sold coated or non coated.
Hooker headers require major modifications - firewall flange, a arms, inner fenders to the car to fit.

Paul
 
hot_rod_hooligans

hot_rod_hooligans

Well Known Member
Ah, just to clarify, looking for shorty headers. It's going in a show car that will never see a drag strip so long as my Dads got it(me on the other hand....), mostly cruises and the occasional Power Tour.
 
J

Jerod Jardine

Well Known Member
Thanks Paul. Our smaller 1 3/4" headers fit good. They are considerably smaller than our big try-ys and allows them to fit better. They are a full length header too, not block huggers like shown.
 
D

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
For what it's worth,the long tube header will considerably increase the engines low-mid range torque and gas mileage potenttial.Most of the shorty headers for these engines are as restrictive as the cast iron parts,and in my opinion, arent worth the cost.
 
pvs409

pvs409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 11
My 409 motor makes 500 HP with the Jardine headers(that HP is after putting in a smaller cam) I think they added 30 -50 HP as I recall.
Also with my overdrive 4 speed Muncie I would agree with Don Jacks comment. The mid range torque is really good...
I do not normally drag race my car (only once a year).
I would strongly recommend Jerod Jardine, great to deal with on my headers, quality is excellent....
Paul
 
hotrodpete

hotrodpete

Member
I am getting close to installing the engine in my 63 impala convertible and was looking at this and other exhaust threads. I have lowered my car and am wondering about clearance issues. I think they may hang down too far and get flattened. Do they hang below the frame much?
I bought the show cars repop 409 hipo cast exhaust from a fellow on here but I know a header will help the torque and breathing. I am more worried about long road trips and did not want the leaks and cracked pipes I remember with headers. Have they gotten any more reliable? do copper exhaust gaskets help?
 
Jim Sullivan

Jim Sullivan

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Just thought about the header clearance issues with the upper control arms. I have a set of Doug's tri-y headers and had a problem with clearance on the driver side upper control arm. I remember reading, years ago, an article in Late Great Chevy magazine about frame sag. The article mentioned that when ever restoring or replacing an engine on an x frame car, one should always check the distance between the upper control arm mounting brackets and use a porto-power to push them apart. I am not sure if there is a published spec on this and I don't remember if there was a measurement in the article. But this could be a reason for the interference with the upper control arms. Also, you would lose some needed camber/ caster adjustment if the frame has sagged. Anybody else hear of this or had this type of a problem? New member,62bubble, and I have measured several frames we have and found varying measurements, the narrowest measurement is on my '63 Impala, that supposed to be a 409 car that looked to have a previous hard life.
 
J

Jerod Jardine

Well Known Member
Jim Sullivan said:
Just thought about the header clearance issues with the upper control arms. I have a set of Doug's tri-y headers and had a problem with clearance on the driver side upper control arm. I remember reading, years ago, an article in Late Great Chevy magazine about frame sag. The article mentioned that when ever restoring or replacing an engine on an x frame car, one should always check the distance between the upper control arm mounting brackets and use a porto-power to push them apart. I am not sure if there is a published spec on this and I don't remember if there was a measurement in the article. But this could be a reason for the interference with the upper control arms. Also, you would lose some needed camber/ caster adjustment if the frame has sagged. Anybody else hear of this or had this type of a problem? New member,62bubble, and I have measured several frames we have and found varying measurements, the narrowest measurement is on my '63 Impala, that supposed to be a 409 car that looked to have a previous hard life.
Click to expand...
Ding, ding, ding! I've tried to explain this to guys. This and all the different re-pop stuff today, who know where they got the part and how far it was out of tolerance to start with plus their tolerance could add up to a lot. The car doesn't fit the headers not the headers don't fit the car.
 
Skip FIx

Skip FIx

Well Known Member
My "old" Hookers from the 70s had the #1 and #2 tubes loop back high and actually got dented by the upper control arm. But then the car lifted pretty good with the drag shocks and could have come down a little hard.
 
63 dream'n

63 dream'n

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 4
I don't know about the patriot headers but sanderson's have a built up,machined surface on the flange that is considered a sealing surface???
 
hotrodpete

hotrodpete

Member
I was thinking more about the header hanging down below the frame.
Now that Jim mentioned it the frame shop in town asked if the car was a big block (all the same to him) or small block. His brother had a couple of 409 cars and was always drag racing. Apparently the frame would spread out and every year they would rack the car and bring it to spec.
That said, I would rather send money to a small guy than one of the big stores. Maybe I should talk to Jarod and see what he says.
Thanks for the comments
 
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