I'm building a 409 dual quad motor for my 63 impala. I have a set of 583 heads that I just had completely redone with all new parts. Then I called to order roller rocker arms and was told I should have the stock studs replaced with longer studs. I had no idea when they were in the shop. Now that the heads are done, I don't want the expense of replacing the studs. Would there be a clearance problem with roller rockers with stock valve covers? Do you think I will be okay with stock rocker arms? Also what would you recommend for exhaust? Headers or replacement cast iron manifolds? I plan on using this car for local street driving and probably drag race 2 week-ends per year. Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks, jimmy
Rocker Arms
- Thread starter jimmy
- Start date
rockers and headers
A lot of this depends on the stock rockers you have. There are a lot of so called stock rocker arms out that are no good. If it was my motor, I would put the studs in and use the roller rockers. The roller rockers should clear stock valve covers with out drippers. If you have drippers in your valve covers, you need a spacer. For gosh sakes don't cut the drippers off! The roller rockers will do you a much better job and are worth the extra for the studs. There were stock rockers made that had a bad heat treat, and they break. The bottom breaks out of them. I wouldn't take the chance if it were my motor.
As for the header or cast iron manifold, the cast would be quieter. The header will give more power. For good headers, the price is about the same as you will pay for good cast 63 long manifolds. There are cheaper headers out there. Depends on how much you want to spend. And how fast you want to go. The faster, the more expensive! But, we know that!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope this helps.
Fred
A lot of this depends on the stock rockers you have. There are a lot of so called stock rocker arms out that are no good. If it was my motor, I would put the studs in and use the roller rockers. The roller rockers should clear stock valve covers with out drippers. If you have drippers in your valve covers, you need a spacer. For gosh sakes don't cut the drippers off! The roller rockers will do you a much better job and are worth the extra for the studs. There were stock rockers made that had a bad heat treat, and they break. The bottom breaks out of them. I wouldn't take the chance if it were my motor.
As for the header or cast iron manifold, the cast would be quieter. The header will give more power. For good headers, the price is about the same as you will pay for good cast 63 long manifolds. There are cheaper headers out there. Depends on how much you want to spend. And how fast you want to go. The faster, the more expensive! But, we know that!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope this helps.
Fred
Bubbletop Bel-Air
Well Known Member
The longer studs are necessary due to the fact the trunion on the roller rocker is higher on the stud in comparission to where the stock ball is. There is not enough thread portruding from the rocker for the adjustment nut to make a good engagement. ARP makes a good replacement stud. You need to add at least 3/8" to the overall height you have at the present. I've already been down this road with mine. If you need further help, PM me and we can talk, Larry.
Rocker ?
Jimmy, If you don't want to make another trip to the machine shop the Competition Cams roller tip rockers are a good street strip rocker. You can use the stock studs and top the rockers off with stock nuts or use poly locks. The 1.72 ratio is so close to the 1.75 stock ratio it's not worth mentioning.
http://www.powerandperformancenews....e_Code=CC&Product_Code=1411-16&Category_Code=
Jimmy, If you don't want to make another trip to the machine shop the Competition Cams roller tip rockers are a good street strip rocker. You can use the stock studs and top the rockers off with stock nuts or use poly locks. The 1.72 ratio is so close to the 1.75 stock ratio it's not worth mentioning.
http://www.powerandperformancenews....e_Code=CC&Product_Code=1411-16&Category_Code=
rocker arm update
Thanks for all the info and advice. I took my heads back to the shop for longer studs. I'll be looking to buy some roller rocker arms. Any suggestions as to which brand to use? What exhaust headers have you used and were you satisfied with them? I don't want to cut my inner fenders. Thanks again,
jimmy
Thanks for all the info and advice. I took my heads back to the shop for longer studs. I'll be looking to buy some roller rocker arms. Any suggestions as to which brand to use? What exhaust headers have you used and were you satisfied with them? I don't want to cut my inner fenders. Thanks again,
jimmy
Several of us are using the Scorpion Roller rocker.
They are quality rockers but watch where you buy them, ,,,,,make sure they send you what you paid for !!!
One of the major outfits for our parts advertises and sells them but have sent me the less quality Angus ones hoping I wouldn`t notice !!
Headers???? good luck,,, dq
They are quality rockers but watch where you buy them, ,,,,,make sure they send you what you paid for !!!
One of the major outfits for our parts advertises and sells them but have sent me the less quality Angus ones hoping I wouldn`t notice !!
Headers???? good luck,,, dq
I used Hooker Super Competition headers in a 64 Impala a few years back from Curt Harvey...not sure if you can get them anymore...I THINK I had to bend a part of the R fenderwell to get one of the pipes around the frame...If I remember right one of the tubes on the right side was a slip on to get around the frame ???? They were great headers...I think they were 2 1/4 inch
headers
I have one set of 1 7/8" headers left that LaPole Custom Headers made. They stay inside the frame on both sides. you do need a spin on filter and smaller starter, but they are good headers and the collector is made to the point you can turn back to the stock mufflers. They have the alternator mount on the driver side, also. If you are interested, email me.
Fred
I have one set of 1 7/8" headers left that LaPole Custom Headers made. They stay inside the frame on both sides. you do need a spin on filter and smaller starter, but they are good headers and the collector is made to the point you can turn back to the stock mufflers. They have the alternator mount on the driver side, also. If you are interested, email me.
Fred
CHEV601234
Well Known Member
Jimmy,
My opinion may not mean anything, especially since you already sent your heads back for longer studs!!!,but considering the intended purposes you stated for your car, and how you planned to drive it, I think you'd have been fine with a set of stock rockers.
No worries about adding spacerrs, or modifing valve covers, or the extra expense you're doing now....... Most of the guys that bought these cars back then probably drove them harder than you plan to, and they lasted fine...
I think we're all WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too caught up with what we think is modern technology (and necessary) for these engines. They were pretty doggone well engineered in the first place. We (some of us) think we're all smarter than the engineers who designed theese engines..............
My opinion may not mean anything, especially since you already sent your heads back for longer studs!!!,but considering the intended purposes you stated for your car, and how you planned to drive it, I think you'd have been fine with a set of stock rockers.
No worries about adding spacerrs, or modifing valve covers, or the extra expense you're doing now....... Most of the guys that bought these cars back then probably drove them harder than you plan to, and they lasted fine...
I think we're all WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too caught up with what we think is modern technology (and necessary) for these engines. They were pretty doggone well engineered in the first place. We (some of us) think we're all smarter than the engineers who designed theese engines..............
CHEV601234, Cant argue with you when youre right. Are roller rockers more efficient? Yea, but do we need them ? No Are they easier on the valve train? Yes, but could get by without them. We are car nuts. Got to be tinkering all the time. Got to find 5 more hp. Do we need that 5 hp for a street driver? No , gotta do it anyway. Sure, GM did a great job designing the W-head, but it has always been the objective of a hot-rodder to try to do a little better. Jimmy loves his 409 and wants to improve it. Cannot fault him for that. Cannot fault you for your logic and honesty. You have been on record many times voiceing your opinon that cars should be left as they were made by the factory. I respect that opinion, but I respect the desires of others to modify their cars as they see fit. There is room for all of us.
Roller Rockers
Jimmy,you did the right thing replacing your stock rockers
.I ran stock rockers for 10 years and I can't count how many times I adjusted my valves and replaced worn rockers .I've run roller rockers for 15 years now,and I check my valve adjustment once a year
I,ve seen the headers Fred has and they are a Quality set of headers,well made and designed.
Jimmy,you did the right thing replacing your stock rockers
.I ran stock rockers for 10 years and I can't count how many times I adjusted my valves and replaced worn rockers .I've run roller rockers for 15 years now,and I check my valve adjustment once a year I,ve seen the headers Fred has and they are a Quality set of headers,well made and designed.