Spindle & Control Arm Problem

[303Radar]

I'm running into a problem with the following combination:
Mike's drop spindle kit (58 Delivery)
New control arms from Ride Tech/Strong arms

Both items are good quality pieces, however, I'm not able to install (don't know the name of this piece either) the arm which connects the drop spindle to the outer tie rods. There isn't enough clearance between the spindle and the outside edge of the lower control arm.
The notes from Ride Tech states the lower control arm is not compatible with the '58 spindle. I never thought to ask if the spindle is based on the '58 design. And even then, I'd probably be in the same boat.

I haven't done anything with power steering yet. I was thinking about using rack and pinion but now I'm worried if I raise this arm that I might have other problems.

What are my options? Is there a way to raise this unnamed arm or is there an after market solution? I expect most any solution is going to be cheaper than replacing the spindles or lower control arms.

Here are some pics to show everyone what I'm running into.
This shows the arm sitting on top of the control arm about 3/4 of an inch above where it would normally go.

This is a close up with too much flash but shows the problem best.

Here is another similar to the first.

 

[1958 delivery]

Steering arm
Of course the spindle is based on a stock spindle, what else could it be based on? What the heck does the Ride Tech A Arms fit if it doesn't fit stock spindles? They must want you to buy some special spindle from them to fit? I'm totally confused in what they were thinking how can you make a control arm for 1958-64 cars and it doesn't fit the stock spindles????????

 

[threeimpalas]

The part in question is called a steering arm.

Are you capable of welding heavier gauge steel? Doing this is an option:

Steering arm
Of course the spindle is based on a stock spindle, what else could it be based on? What the heck does the Ride Tech A Arms fit if it doesn't fit stock spindles? They must want you to buy some special spindle from them to fit? I'm totally confused in what they were thinking how can you make a control arm for 1958-64 cars and it doesn't fit the stock spindles????????

The control arms DO fit OE '59-64 spindles, although I was not aware that the '58 is different than '59-64. The guys at Ride Tech are not dumb, and as and the Ride Tech website notes (and 303Radar knew ahead of time), the control arms are not compatible with the '58 spindle. It's also entirely possible that the aftermarket dropped spindle doesn't retain the same steering arm position as an OE '58 or '59-64 spindle.

 

[303Radar]

It only doesn't fit a '58 spindle, not sure what is different for '58 vs 59 - 64. They don't have recommendation to fix this problem.

 

[1958 delivery]

As far as ball joint placement the 58 spindle is exactly the same as the 59-64, it's just the upper 5/8" bolt offset that is different on a 58 spindle which has nothing to do with this situation. That aftermarket A arm is made 'thicker" at the ball joint mount not allowing suffiucient space to fit the steering arm, the drop spindle is also a little thicker down there.

 

[1958 delivery]

It only doesn't fit a '58 spindle, not sure what is different for '58 vs 59 - 64. They don't have recommendation to fix this problem.

There is NO difference between the 58 and 59 spindles as far as ball joints are concerned.

 

[1958 delivery]

From what I see, you either modify a steering arm as noted above or use the stock Chevy lower control arms modified for air bags.

 

[1958 delivery]

OK, got to the bottom of this. Ride Tech does not use a stock 58-64 ball joint on their arms, they use a press in ball joint which requires additional support around the ball joint area for strength which increases the size there. Additionally all drop spindles are thicker in that area too. Ride Techs old A arms that used stock-bolt on ball joints did clear drop spindles but this newer design will not clear any brand drop spindles. Their A arms will clear with stock spindles as the drop spindles will clear with stock control arms but not the combination of ride tech and drop spindle.
I called the real expert to find out this stuff, he sometimes uses Ride Tech with drop spindles and does modify the steering arm for clearance. He will modify your steering arms for clearance, at a cost of course (I don't know what he charges) If interested call:
Boris
Street Machinery, Euclid Ohio
(216)789-1647

 

[303Radar]

OK, got to the bottom of this. Ride Tech does not use a stock 58-64 ball joint on their arms, they use a press in ball joint which requires additional support around the ball joint area for strength which increases the size there. Additionally all drop spindles are thicker in that area too. Ride Techs old A arms that used stock-bolt on ball joints did clear drop spindles but this newer design will not clear any brand drop spindles. Their A arms will clear with stock spindles as the drop spindles will clear with stock control arms but not the combination of ride tech and drop spindle.
I called the real expert to find out this stuff, he sometimes uses Ride Tech with drop spindles and does modify the steering arm for clearance. He will modify your steering arms for clearance, at a cost of course (I don't know what he charges) If interested call:
Boris
Street Machinery, Euclid Ohio
(216)789-1647

Wow - Thanks for hunting down all the info! Looks like a steering arm modification is in my future.
I'll take a look at what I'm comfortable doing with an arc welder and other tools on hand. At worst, it's a call to Boris.

Thanks again!

 

[LMBRJQ 60]

Wow - Thanks for hunting down all the info! Looks like a steering arm modification is in my future.
I'll take a look at what I'm comfortable doing with an arc welder and other tools on hand. At worst, it's a call to Boris.

Thanks again!

Just for my 2 cents worth 303,
I have in the past held welding tickets in all positions (welding positions that is Butch) but when it comes to steering or brakes etc i will get a reputable business to do that work
Some of the metal composition in castings can be a little different to weld and also require to be cooled very slowly to avoid cracking around the weld perimeter, also requiring specific rods etc
I would take Mikes advice and send it to and "expert" who has obviously done this before and is in business in the industry

Again, not knowing your ability with a welder this is only my opinion

Best Regards

Steve

 

[303Radar]

Just for my 2 cents worth 303,
I have in the past held welding tickets in all positions (welding positions that is Butch) but when it comes to steering or brakes etc i will get a reputable business to do that work
Some of the metal composition in castings can be a little different to weld and also require to be cooled very slowly to avoid cracking around the weld perimeter, also requiring specific rods etc
I would take Mikes advice and send it to and "expert" who has obviously done this before and is in business in the industry

Again, not knowing your ability with a welder this is only my opinion

Best Regards

Steve

I was forgetting the steering arms are cast metal. I have a neighbor who is a professional welder and will be honest with me. If he isn't up for it (time/experience) I may be reaching out Boris later this week.

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[1958 delivery]

They're not cast they're forged which is weldable. Boris removes about half the existing metal for clearance in that area and welds a top gusset to regain the needed strength. You do need to be an accomplished welder to weld that forging correctly

 

[LMBRJQ 60]

They're not cast they're forged which is weldable. Boris removes about half the existing metal for clearance in that area and welds a top gusset to regain the needed strength. You do need to be an accomplished welder to weld that forging correctly

Thanks for clearing that up Mike,
Over here we cannot weld steering parts or brake parts without getting the crack tested
Anything cast or forged i just get the professionals to do

Steve

 

[303Radar]

I think I came up with another alternative but want a sanity check. There are two bolts above the steering arm here

Is there a good reason to not mount the steering arm to these bolts? They about two inches higher than the correct bolts and 1/2in rather 7/16in. And appear to have the correct spacing.
It seems to me I could drill out the holes in the steering arms and mount them in the higher location.
This seems to be the most cost effective solution and it looks like the tie rods would not be sitting up too high.

Thoughts?

 

[1958 delivery]

Might be worth a try. Drilling out your steering arm holes won't hurt them. You'll need to see if the higher position puts the tie rods in any bind through out the range of motion. Makes me think there may be a problem doing this because why doesn't Boris do this if it's OK?

 

[boxerdog]

It might work but odds are it will create a bump steer problem.

 

[303Radar]

That's good question. I talked with Boris and was all ready to ship him my steering arms until he told me he needed the spindle, lower control arm, and I think the center link or tie rods as well for mock up. The shipping alone on these items is a lot. And I don't have the rack and pinion quite yet. I don't plan on ordering it right away and may change my mind. From the instructions on the Flaming River site:
http://www.flamingriver.com/download2.php/products/c0007/s0014?instructions

They have pictures showing the rack and pinion installed and from the pictures on page 8, I can't see that the tie rods would bind on anything. The center link/drag bar is sitting in front of the tie rods.

I may clean up my existing parts, take out the shocks and run this through a range of motions/ride heights and see what I see. If I have a chance to do this, I'll post the pics and results.

 

[1958 delivery]

I realized why Boris doesn't do this, he doesn't use this type of spindle.
If you're changing to a R&P you may have to buy shorter steering arms which is common to do with R&P, you may want to look into that.

 

[threeimpalas]

Keep in mind that Boris just puts air suspensions on a lot of cars that he flips. I don't believe he really does much fabrication work beyond that, and that sort of modification to the steering arm certainly isn't anything that you couldn't have done locally. Really shouldn't be any need to send him all of those parts to modify the arm either; I suspect he's giving you a polite "I dont' want to bother with it" message.

Bolt the arm down to a steel plate so the positional relationship between the bolt holes and tie-rod end bore doesn't move, weld on the gusset, and then cut out the offending material.

I would not move the arm up to the 2nd position, as it will screw up your steering geometry.

 

[1958 delivery]

Keep in mind that Boris just puts air suspensions on a lot of cars that he flips. I don't believe he really does much fabrication work beyond that, and that sort of modification to the steering arm certainly isn't anything that you couldn't have done locally. Really shouldn't be any need to send him all of those parts to modify the arm either; I suspect he's giving you a polite "I dont' want to bother with it" message.

Bolt the arm down to a steel plate so the positional relationship between the bolt holes and tie-rod end bore doesn't move, weld on the gusset, and then cut out the offending material.

I would not move the arm up to the 2nd position, as it will screw up your steering geometry.

You couldn't be more wrong