Valve train failure....where to go from here

[ORO62]

Well, we all have opinions and you've gotten some good ones, now my opinion you have a nice car and it shouldn't cost you 10K around 5-7K for a complete rebuild then you know what you have and there will not be anymore guessing.

You have the majority of the parts other then the rebuild kit and what was damaged, The 1st shop you stated welded the oil pump pick up that probably where your issues started.

But you now have metal in the motor I wouldn't trust putting more money into it and then have too tear it apart once again.

50 years ago we did that but W motors were plenty full and we were young, the one thing with hot rods today and keeping them like when they came off the show room floor is patience's 6 months too a year isn't long rebuild the motor.

You live in CA find a shop with a guy 60 years old, he'll talk with you and tell you what's best rebuild. I won't use a shop that uses mechanics in their 30's or 40's no offense too you young guy's that just my opinion.

Some of you guy's are great like Nana

You have a car that was restored twelve years and only has 2500 miles on it, then you bought it a put 800 miles on it in 3 months.

I drive my cars at least 1000 miles per year.

Also your a electrician, so you have common sense you can rebuild this motor yourself and there's a ton of info on this site and YouTube, but you got too be patience.

Just my opinion and you can do this trust me again with patience's good luck

We'll see how this all plays out, but if it is a full rebuild scenario, then there's things I wouldn't like to overlook like upgrading to have a 4 bolt main for example. At the end of it all will be pretty pricey either way :/

 

[nana1962409]

I don’t think the distributor would be able to restrict oil to the left side of the engine after looking at a flow diagram and a block I have on the stand. Looks like oil for the left side comes from the rear cam bearing right up to the lifter oil galley. The right side comes from the rear cam bearing then around the distributor and then to the lifter oil galley. I mentioned it earlier from memory from one of the first people to teach me anything about 409s he always said to make sure the distributor is in correctly or you won’t get oil to one side of the engine. I just couldn’t remember what side and he passed away about 2 months ago so I couldn’t ask him to be sure. Here is a oil flow diagram I found in one of my old motors manual from I think 1961.

 

[Gofish]

I don’t think the distributor would be able to restrict oil to the left side of the engine after looking at a flow diagram and a block I have on the stand. Looks like oil for the left side comes from the rear cam bearing right up to the lifter oil galley. The right side comes from the rear cam bearing then around the distributor and then to the lifter oil galley. I mentioned it earlier from memory from one of the first people to teach me anything about 409s he always said to make sure the distributor is in correctly or you won’t get oil to one side of the engine. I just couldn’t remember what side and he passed away about 2 months ago so I couldn’t ask him to be sure. Here is a oil flow diagram I found in one of my old motors manual from I think 1961.View attachment 89076

A lot of good advice throughout here, but we’re pretty much at the mercy of whoever goes through your engine looking for the problem(s).

As far as the distributor affecting oiling, the oil galley passes oil to the top of the 1,3,5,7 side, passes through the distributor shaft area, then on to the top end of the 2,4,6,8 side end. As such, if the 2,4,6,8 top side is OK as far as oil goes, it seems unlikely to be the distributor... others correct me if I’m off-base here. Also, would lack of oiling on the 1,3,5,7 side break push rods an inch or so below the rocker? That’s a question not a judgement.

Someone mentioned a wrong oil pump drive rod. That is actually easy to do since the W engines use the same oil pump as the SBC, but use a longer drive rod (been there!). However, that would result in the oil pump not being driven by the distributor and a lack of oil everywhere, so likely not your issue.

Unfortunately, to looks like someone will need to go through the engine and determine what went wrong. As you say, maybe next summer.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. It’s a nice car and worth getting right.

John

 

[61BUBBLE348]

the distributor body at the bottom of the unit where the oil passes around is not fully open like a small block or MKIV, a section is blocked, which if in the wrong spot could cause oil to not go where it is intended, this may or may not be the problem but I was of the understanding that with the vacuum advance can in the correct spot the block off is also in the correct spot, when I built my 348 and used a non vacuum advanced distributor I was conscious of this and took my time to get the location right. that was 11 years ago and all has been good.

 

[Iowa409]

Yes it really is a horrible situation, I've been there, but if you try to band-aid it and take a gamble with out a tear down, and get lucky, that would be cool, but what is that likelihood. You know you have broken parts and metal in there, that's a given.

Then you put it together and it does more damage or just does not work, then your into it a third time, then you will really be upset and probably sell the whole dam car at a loss. (Those were my options, in my case) IMO you bought it cause you really liked it, and why wouldn't you, its beautiful. Also it is a very iconic , nostalgic piece of history, that you own. No one here will tell you what to do with your car, but they will tell you what you should do, kind of like you would not run 12 gauge wire on a 50 amp circuit. I have looked at my build in the garage for almost 5 years, little money here, little money there, and now I can see the end in sight, I just looked at it all this time, telling myself, at least I own it and .....someday soon it will run, and go down the road and my hard work will have been worth it. When you bought the car it ran good or you would not have taken it on a long road trip, something went wrong with the workmanship somewhere and to coin a phrase, now, "IT is WHAT it IS,, you cannot reverse that, so Don't let it beat ya up to much, dust your bottom off and get after it, or walk away and take the loss, its brutal advice but, again its where your at now.

Don't hate me for being brutal, but that's where your at with this whole deal now. Another option is to throw a small block or something in it to drive it, and put your 409 on a stand until you can do the repair properly. Good luck, you have a whole group of people who will help and guide you through the process.

 

[nana1962409]

Gofish I agree that the distributor isn’t the problem in his case. But you have the flow wrong. It comes up from the rear cam bearing from one of the 3 holes in it and feeds up to the 1,3,5,7 side and doesn’t even connect to the distributor at all. The 2,4,6,8 side comes up from one of the other 3 holes in the rear cam bearing and then around the distributor to the lifter galley.

 

[32witha409]

So, I must ask, why have the oil blocker on the factory distributors period? Most if not all after market distributors and magnetos have a 360 degree groove and they appear to function OK. Or am I wrong here?

 

[boxerdog]

I never understood that either, so I always made a passage if I used one of those distributors.

Also wondered about the grooved rear cam journal (I've seen that overlooked) and the smart engine builders that grooved the bearing or the block just in case...seems like the factory could have made it a lot more fool-proof.

But I was 10 when the first 348 came out and I wasn't paying attention.

 

[Don Jacks]

Chevrolet never seemed to learn.EXAMPLE 1;55-56 small block,must have rear cam journal notched 57-up fixed.2;W series,screwy rear cam oiling system,works ok but only if you pay strict attention to detail 3;65-66 big block about the same as the 55-56 engines 67 up problem fixed.Some one shoulld have fixed this after learning what the improvements in the 57 small block did.

 

[boxerdog]

Exactly!

 

[tenxal]

So, I must ask, why have the oil blocker on the factory distributors period? Most if not all after market distributors and magnetos have a 360 degree groove and they appear to function OK. Or am I wrong here?

No...you're not wrong. Actually, you've nailed it pretty well.

Why on Earth the Chevrolet engineers designed it that way shows how disconnected they were from things. Even in the day of owners taking their cars to dealerships for service, most general line mechanics wouldn't know this.

Just another 'W' block nuance that makes these unlike a SBC or BBC.

Don't get me started on the 690/583 heads and the whole 425 hp camshafts lash up.....

 

[32witha409]

No...you're not wrong. Actually, you've nailed it pretty well.

Why on Earth the Chevrolet engineers designed it that way shows how disconnected they were from things. Even in the day of owners taking their cars to dealerships for service, most general line mechanics wouldn't know this.

Just another 'W' block nuance that makes these unlike a SBC or BBC.

Don't get me started on the 690/583 heads and the whole 425 hp camshafts lash up.....

The only logic I could possibly imagine for the blocker is maybe to limit the flow to that side of lifters (only one path around the dizzy stem) to guarantee/ensure that the other side won't be oil starved under some odd failure condition. Read a flow balancing feature. All of the oil is supplied by the bearing circumferential groove (by memory) which is of a limited cross section in comparison to the gallery's above the bearing.

Furthermore I suppose with the rear main sharing the oil supply gallery with the lifters, the bearing is a built in restriction by design.. Main priority oiling?

Just me commiserating with myself.

 

[La Hot Rods]

Must of been easier to cast that way.

 

[32witha409]

I can't think of another dizzy that is cast that way. Not even in the aftermarket that is significantly more cost sensitive. I has to have a design reason.

 

[rstreet]

No...you're not wrong. Actually, you've nailed it pretty well.

Why on Earth the Chevrolet engineers designed it that way shows how disconnected they were from things. Even in the day of owners taking their cars to dealerships for service, most general line mechanics wouldn't know this.

Just another 'W' block nuance that makes these unlike a SBC or BBC.

Don't get me started on the 690/583 heads and the whole 425 hp camshafts lash up.....

Oh please get started with your opinions on those subjects
Robert

 

[tenxal]

Furthermore I suppose with the rear main sharing the oil supply gallery with the lifters, the bearing is a built in restriction by design. Main priority oiling?

Only in the loosest sense of the term.

If you pre-oil a 'W' with the timing cover off, the dots connect rather easily.

 

[Gofish]

Gofish I agree that the distributor isn’t the problem in his case. But you have the flow wrong. It comes up from the rear cam bearing from one of the 3 holes in it and feeds up to the 1,3,5,7 side and doesn’t even connect to the distributor at all. The 2,4,6,8 side comes up from one of the other 3 holes in the rear cam bearing and then around the distributor to the lifter galley.

Aha, good catch. My comment came from my experience trying to use an SBC primer tool to pre-oil my 348. Didn’t get oil to the top of the 2,4,6,8 side until I used the W-motor priming tool. Thanks for correcting me.

For further overall explanation to the readers and to address other comments... see pics of the two-priming tools (posted elsewhere in this forum as well).

John

 

[Hobart]

Well, I can't offer any more advice on the issue; things are well covered by our wise forum members.

So I'll just throw in some more encouragement: This absolutely sucks, no doubt about it. But, you have a beautiful '62, with great, unique colors, stickshift; I mean that thing is awesome! You will get thru this, and it will cost some money and time - probably more than you want to give up right now; but there will come a day when you will be able to just step outside, turn the key and go row some gears and punish some tires in that fine automobile.
So, hang in there, and lean on the forum for support and encouragement - it will be worth it in the end. Wishing you the best!

 

[wristpin]

Any up dates?

 

[1964SuperStocker]

We'll see how this all plays out, but if it is a full rebuild scenario, then there's things I wouldn't like to overlook like upgrading to have a 4 bolt main for example. At the end of it all will be pretty pricey either way :/

4 bolt main? What racing class are you shooting for?